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Thread: Help sexing

  1. #21
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Help sexing

    Quote Originally Posted by Simland View Post
    That was informative, thank you.

    That video makes it look easy to pop older snakes, but if I were to try, I wouldn't want to put too much pressure, but, then if nothing came out, I wouldn't know if it's because there's nothing there or if I just didn't put enough pressure....

    What are the subcaudal scale count ranges for males and females? The tail seems to be about as long as that of my male.

    I'm leaning more and more toward "male" because everything said in this thread and because the more I look, the more I see a thick male.

    Popping is easy once you have been taught the proper technique and have practiced it over time. It's not a skill that you will become proficient at if you don't practice it. The sub caudal scales are those scales that are below the cloaca and should be counted distal and towards the tail. Males and females vary in the counts with males having higher numbers. Can you post a photo of the tail from a dorsal viewpoint? Dorsal being the top part of the snake. Usually a view from that point will show two indentations laterally just beyond the cloaca in males.
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  2. #22
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Help sexing

    According to "The Garter Snakes Evolution and Ecology" by Rossman, Ford, Siegel: Subcaudals in T. Sirtalis range from 61 to 97 in males and 52 to 90 in females. Males average 7 to 12.3 more subcaudals than females.... Page 262 under species accounts. T. Sirtalis Common garter snake.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Help sexing

    I'm counting 80 scales on that first picture (estimating the number of scales hidden).

    Here's a dorsal picture I took yesterday. Even as I was taking it I noticed what I think is the indentations you're talking about.

    And, maybe I'm just getting used to it, but I don't see the female-like characteristics much anymore.

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  4. #24
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Help sexing

    Nice looking animal. I was hoping you would hold the snake up so the dorsal view just above the cloaca towards the tail. I am seeing female though. This view will be better if you hold the animal up as in the central pic. If there are truly 80 subcaudals then again I would think female.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Help sexing

    I'll try to get those pictures this evening (dorsal and ventral, without my fingers in the way...maybe a lateral shot, too, just for good measure), if I can catch my roommate.

  6. #26
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    Re: Help sexing

    Here are the pictures.

    Ventral (again)... this time it's the lack of sharpness in some places that makes it hard to count the scales, but I still get 80 when trying.
    Dorsal
    And lateral, for good measure.

    Edit: added cropped shots since you can't zoom in within the forum.
    I'm astounded at how quiet this snake is (behaviorally speaking). Especially if it's a male. Could it be so old that it has become less "vital" (I don't mean lethargic)

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  7. #27
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Help sexing

    I zoomed and sharpened this photo. I think you have a male there.


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  8. #28
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Help sexing

    Nice pics and I counted 84 subcaudals. Triple checked the count the best I could from pic#2 and the zoomed in pic from Steve. Now I need my probe set. Your pics #3 and #4 show clear indentations laterally with a slight hint of a bulge at the dorsal aspect above the cloacal region. Therefore I will presume this snake is male. Congrats. Great photos. There is always one more difficult to identify than most others.
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