Smelly red goop piles on substrate

[guidofatherof5]

Stripes will not grieve in the sense people do. Stripes will miss the comfort of Blackie as there is safety in numbers.
Same size Thamnophis would be fine only after a quarantine period of at least 90 days.(in my opinion)
The necropsy is your call. If it helps answer some questions and makes you feel better then get it done if you can afford it.
Post up some under tail photos of Stripes and we'll sex her/him. I'll also link you to a page to show you the type of photos to post. It's also a great page to learn what the different sexes look like.
Best to house same sex unless you want little scrubs popping up.
Miscarriage is more of a mammalian term. Passing slugs or jellies would be appropriate for a Thamnophis. Seen many slugs and jellies in my time. Most of the time the snakes do fine afterwords.
You are not using the forum as a crutch so don't think that. This Thamnophis family is here to help you.
Keep your head up. Most if not all of us have lost snakes and some have been a direct result of what we did or didn't do.
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/bree...xing-pics.html

[joeysgreen]

I am very sorry for your loss and commend you for how you are approaching it. I don't have anything to add to Steve's post above, but welcome any questions you have in the future.

[Albert Clark]

Sorry for the loss of your garter. I will just say yes we have all lost snakes at one time or another for various reasons. You are not alone there. But for the future anytime you acquire any wild caught snakes remember that they are loaded with a host of diseases and potential diseases and they need immediate treatment and evaluation by a herp vet. Captive bred animals are a safer acquisition but not to say they don't require treatment as well. Captive bred animals aren't exposed to the pathogenic and bacteria as wild caughts are. Consider captive bred animals in the future.

[cnphilips]

I don't know if I'll do the necropsy, so I won't have a final stamp of what happened. But I do want everyone to approach the live fish feeding with caution. Just for clarification these were not recently captured wild snakes, and were more-likely-than-not captive bred. They were re-homed to us, so I can't be 100% certain where they started, but I don't think they were ever wild.

It think it's more likely that something nasty came in through the pet store minnows than anywhere else. There must have been other issues as well, especially since both snakes had similar symptoms but differing health from the start. The "miscarriage" theory came from the Monday vet, who actually left the exam room and called the zoo because she didn't know garters had live birth, and wouldn't believe me. Thank you for clarifying what that meant, and would have looked like.

I need a lot more information on diets, and introducing snakes, all sorts of stuff moving forward (including getting Stripes's gender nailed down). But I'm going to start new threads, and let this one lie where it is. Final thoughts: Just.... use your vet when you need to and ... people that like garters are super nice and supportive and I'm glad to be a part of the community now, just wish it had been on better terms.

Thanks guys.

[cnphilips]

Took Stripes to the vet this morning to make sure we were through it. She was weak so we tube fed and did injectable antibiotic.

She died at the vet.

Same swollen heart as you can see in Blackie's x-ray.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear Stripes didn't make it. Sounds to me like both snakes had something coming into your care. Time to disinfect everything with a 1 to 10 (bleach to water)mix.
You have been dealt a tough hand with both snakes. Hang in there as we can see your are a good, caring keeper.

[cnphilips]

Right now theres just a list of what it probably isn't and a shorter list of what it might be. Mostly looking for changes in care. I assumed it was parasites from the last two feeds (live minnows, then nightcrawlers) but this vet says that's unlikely to be so dramatic, also Stripes was treated, and still died. Also hearts should have shrank with blood loss, not enlarged, so that's off. Likely systemic infection, but no ideas on how or why they both got it.

Only notable change right at symptom onset is that we ran out of Reptisafe, but I had a bottle of Fluker's declorinator so we started using that. Really hoping it's not that because that feels insane or conspiratory, either way I'm back to reptisafe.

only remaining reptile in the house is a box turtle. She had her stuff dismantled, bleached or tossed yesterday. She's not eating alot, she's got her appointment Friday as a just in case.

whole thing sucks more than I can express. ...maybe something'll be learned, we're at 4 plus vets on it now so....

[guidofatherof5]

Minnow wouldn't cause an immediate problem so I don't think they had anything to do with these deaths.

[Albert Clark]

Sorry to hear about stripes. Wow, lightning does strike twice contrary to popular belief huh? Good luck with the box turtle, hope it proves out healthy. When you are ready for a new pair of garters there are several breeders of healthy captive bred and born right here on the forum. We are all looking forward to your updates.

[Rushthezeppelin]

I'm wondering if they were exposed to some nasty chemical that possibly had a steroid like affect on them....just can't see what else could enlarge a heart other than that or a genetic defect.