Eyes

[Garter_Gertie]

It's not a part of their saliva, even if it does mix with saliva because they don't inject their venom.

Well, anyway, I use the term 'harmless' to avoid the issue of whether or not they're venomous.

Okay. They have their usual spit PLUS the 'venom' out of that Dubois or whatever gland. And then the TWO mix. Is that correct?

"Harmless." I shall mention that to Dave. He may have to change the entire first part of his presentation. Not that Naturalists can't err and he's not a Herpie for sure. And he is only human... But I'd rather us give correct info than not. I'd sure HATE one of our visitors to find THIS place and come screaming back to us we gave them false or incorrect info.

Sheesh!

[ssssnakeluvr]

What I've been taught, the teeth in back rotate forward to puncture and deflate the toad and the paralizing toxin is in the saliva of the Hognose.

rotate forward??? never heard of that...only moving teeth I have heard of are the pit vipers fangs, they lay flat on the roof of the mouth and are pulled out when the mouth opens...

[ssssnakeluvr]

I thought lizards evolved from snakes! That snakes wanted to get somewhere, didn't have leges and develope them. So, lizards got lazy and lost their legs?

not all did....boas and pythons have spurs and small bones inside at the base of the spurs. I read they are vestigial hip bones. there are fossils of boas and pythons, but I read somewhere that there are fossil colubrids. I don't believe they would be evolved from lizards.

[drache]

I thought lizards evolved from snakes! That snakes wanted to get somewhere, didn't have leges and develope them. So, lizards got lazy and lost their legs?

I know this is a bit off topic
but legs don't necessarily make for better locomotion
in fact, when my plated lizards want to go faster, they tuck their legs flat to their sides and slither

[Stefan-A]

Indeed. Especially in tight places legs will just get in the way.

About the whole venom thing, venom probably predates constriction as a method of subduing prey.

[Garter_Gertie]

Don, yup. Hoggies are rear 'fanged.' I'm assuming it's much the same was as the viper, as hognose teeth lay flat and rotate forward to puncture the toad and deflate it. I'm also assuming as the hognose swallows the toad this pushes the teech back into place.

[Stefan-A]

Don, yup. Hoggies are rear 'fanged.' I'm assuming it's much the same was as the viper, as hognose teeth lay flat and rotate forward to puncture the toad and deflate it. I'm also assuming as the hognose swallows the toad this pushes the teech back into place.

Nope, only the fangs on vipers swing forward (a couple of exceptions exist). The hognoses' "fangs" are fixed.

[drache]

also - I believe that the hognose does need to hold on for a bit, because the teeth are only grooved and merely bring the venom to the site, rather than injecting it

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

About the whole venom thing, venom probably predates constriction as a method of subduing prey.

I am not so sure about that. I was under the impression that colubrids and vipers are the "newer" snakes and that the intricate varieties of venom (whether lethal or not) are the "cutting edge" of snake evolution.

Fossil record indicate boids to be among the oldest snakes (with their vestigial hips and spurs). I would think (don't quote me on that) death by constriction may go way back!

Steve

[Zephyr]

I actually discussed this with a person who was studying easter indigos at the international science fair; garter snakes, along with most other colubrids, ARE venomous. Their venom (Garter's) is designed to target the nerves of INVERTEBRATE prey. It only has a minor effect on toads. Hence the fact that when you see a garter grab onto a big night crawler, the area becomes puffy and inflamed.