Unofficial first day

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

You are still correct, they are western terrestrials, but they are a subspecies of them, the wandering. The western terrestrial garter name applies to all thamnophis elegans.... and all of the subspecies have their own common names, thamnophis elegans vagrans being the wandering garter its the same as how all of thamnophis sirtalis are called the common garter snake, and all of the subspecies have their own names (red sided, red spotted, puget sound, eastern, etc etc...)

hope that helps a little!! cool finds!

[Reptar!]

Thats interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Thats the kind of stuff I want to learn.

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah, took me a while before that finally sunk in so don't feel like you're the only one who ever got mixed up on that Keaton.

Like Shannon was saying, "Western Terrestrial" covers a group of different subspecies just like "Common garter" does. What irritates me (not sure why) is when people refer to all garter snakes as "common garter snakes" when they aren't. A plains garter, a checkered garter, etc. being referred to as "common garter" is incorrect. "Thamnophis" is all garter/ribbon snakes. The second Latin names indicate the species, the third Latin name is the subspecies name. All Common Garters have names that start with Thamnophis sirtalis. All Western Terrestrials start with Thamnophis elegans.

Western Terrestrial Garter Snake subspecies and common names:
(copied and pasted from Wikipedia)

• Arizona Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans arizonae (Tanner & Lowe, 1989)
• Mountain Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans elegans (Baird & Girard, 1853)
• Mexican Wandering Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans errans (Smith, 1942)
• Coast Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans terrestris (Fox, 1951)
• Wandering Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans vagrans (Baird & Girard, 1853)
• Upper Basin Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans vascotanneri (Tanner & Lowe, 1989)
• Sierra San Pedro Mártir Garter Snake, Thamnophis elegans hueyi (Van Denburgh & Slevin, 1923)

"Common Garter Snake" covers all these:

Current scientific classification recognizes thirteen subspecies (ordered by date):

• T. s. sirtalis (Linnaeus, 1758) – Eastern Garter Snake
• T. s. parietalis Say, 1823 – Red-sided Garter Snake (has also been introduced to northern Halland in Sweden)
• T. s. infernalis Blainville, 1835 – California Red-sided Garter Snake
• T. s. concinnus Hallowell, 1852 – Oregon red-spotted Garter Snake
• T. s. dorsalis Baird & Girard, 1853 – New Mexico Garter Snake
• T. s. pickeringii Baird and Girard, 1853 – Puget Sound Garter Snake
• T. s. tetrataenia Cope, 1875 – San Francisco Garter Snake (endangered)
• T. s. semifasciatus Cope, 1892 – Chicago Garter Snake
• T. s. pallidulus Allen, 1899 – Maritime Garter Snake
• T. s. annectens Brown, 1950 – Texas Garter Snake
• T. s. fitchi Fox, 1951 – Valley Garter Snake
• T. s. similis Rossman, 1965 – Blue-striped Garter Snake
• T. s. lowei

[Reptar!]

Thats informative. That list really helps. And the info you shared with me really makes sense. I thought they looked similar. I didn't want to speculate on it because I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info guys. It is going help with this project a lot. This is the kind of stuff that I was looking forward to learning through this experience. Thanks a ton guys. (and gal)

[Reptar!]

Well guys. I went out today and did some herping with my younger brother. Today I will call my real first day. I recorded their length and location in my journal. I wrote down the males and females. I have got to be honest. The snakes I found today were a little less polite than the ones I have been finding so far. Almost all of them snapped at me. They all musked on me. Not to say that I wasn't asking for it. I mean I did go down and pick them up. We caught six total. All wandering garters, seems they are the only ones I can find. These ones all seem unhealthy though. One of them had scar tissue over its left eye and a healed wound on its side. They all had extremely dry skin by comparison to the others I found this week. I regret to inform you that I did not take any pictures today. I was kinda in a rush. Another thing I noticed was the abundance of females. Out of this six we picked up only one was a male. Do you guys know if females are more common to find or anything like that? Overall I would call the day a success on the fact that we found so many in such a short time. However I still feel like that area is not suitable for the garters. They all seemed well fed and everything. They just were all very temperamental and jumpy. All but one bit my gloves. I am thinking something else is going on there. It was fairly close to a middle school. Please feel free to give me your input. Maybe I just don't know enough about these guys as I should going into this.

[guidofatherof5]

I would say in my wild T. radix population the males out number the female 5-10 to 1.
At the T.s. parientalis (Red Sided Garter Snake) den I found it to be more like 20 to 1. Males to females.

I've always found more males than females in my travels.

[Reptar!]

I see. I am certain that I am I.D-ing them right. Its weird. On my other outings it has been even for the most part. But today was weird. And the male I found was the only one that didn't bite me. I refused to be discouraged though. I just hope tomorrow I can find some radixes. Usually thats all I can find. But this year I haven't really seen any. We saw one the first day and haven't seen one since.

[guidofatherof5]

Those radixes can be wily.
Looking forward to your continuing adventure.
Good luck.

[Didymus20X6]

I just hope tomorrow I can find some radixes. Usually thats all I can find. But this year I haven't really seen any. We saw one the first day and haven't seen one since.

There's a reason: they've all moved to Steve's house.

[guidofatherof5]

I wish