Collecting Gravid Females.

[enigma200316]

I agree to that this forum has changed, becoming an every day run of the mill reptile forum and yes complete with the flamming and starting of (BS)
and I'll say once again, you people that say it is not right to take wild snakes should think a minute if it were not for that than there would be no captive breed snakes for they had to catch some from the wild to begin the industry........so anyway since you can't put anything on here any more without being judged I will let you all know now I'm leaving the forum, and best wishes to you all.......bye bye

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I've only ever taken two females knowing they were gravid, and one was my hypo (btw i am almost positive she is gravid this year) and the other is my erythristic. My large WC eastern female I caught earlier this year, i had no idea was gravid, but, she is now! One of my males may have bred her when I set up the community eastern cage though. My little brother caught me a garter snake that he found in someone's garage, I have had her since early march and lo and behold she is also carrying little ones. I held on to her when my brother brought her to me because she had some scale rot which has since been healing well.

If I find an unusual snake again, (like how i found my hypo) i will keep it regardless of male or female. It was actually convienient that my hypo was gravid at the time I found her, it gave me a bit of a head start in proving out her genetics in these years to come.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I agree to that this forum has changed, becoming an every day run of the mill reptile forum and yes complete with the flamming and starting of (BS)
and I'll say once again, you people that say it is not right to take wild snakes should think a minute if it were not for that than there would be no captive breed snakes for they had to catch some from the wild to begin the industry........so anyway since you can't put anything on here any more without being judged I will let you all know now I'm leaving the forum, and best wishes to you all.......bye bye

oh man.....

[infernalis]

Gee this topic stirred up the septic.

I don't think anyone found fault with breeders collecting fresh blood???

I think anyone here would dive on a wild "morph" crawling on the ground.

Myself included. Male or female, gravid or otherwise.

A wild hypo/amal/mel or whatever is a true gem, I think James post was more to get us thinking....

[anji1971]

That's all I thought it was, too............just a topic to see how we all felt about it, and not necessarily a judgement.
As I said, I have taken gravid females, for my own reasons, and I don't feel judged or criticized by this thread at all. I think when we post topics like this it gives each and every one of us some insight into what works for everyone else, and something to think about as well. I'm certainly not about to run out and release my female out of guilt, nor take it personally if some of our other members don't agree with why I have her, any more than I would give them a hard time for what they do.
I hate to think we'd lose a valuable member from a misunderstanding.

[adamanteus]

I agree to that this forum has changed, becoming an every day run of the mill reptile forum and yes complete with the flamming and starting of (BS)
and I'll say once again, you people that say it is not right to take wild snakes should think a minute if it were not for that than there would be no captive breed snakes for they had to catch some from the wild to begin the industry........so anyway since you can't put anything on here any more without being judged I will let you all know now I'm leaving the forum, and best wishes to you all.......bye bye

I think you have misunderstood the topic here, Justin. We're not talking about the collecting of wild Garters in general, but rather the deliberate taking of gravid females and whether or not that is a harmful practice.
It's a shame you think it's BS, personally I thought it was an interesting and thought provoking topic..... and no one has been flamed.
Please read my first post in this thread again before you decide to leave us, I'm sure you will see that no one is judging anyone, we're just talking to each other.

Sometimes we all need to sit back and reassess what we're doing, just to make sure we're heading in the right direction.

[SpyrotheGartersnake]

i think it wrong to take gravid females from the wild. from us taking them from the wild that would become a decrease of the wild population and a increase of captive population. plus we need wild garter snakes they help reduce the population of mice,frogs,worms,fish and and many others. now if we were to keep taking garters from the wild there would be a major increase in the populations of mice,frogs,worms,and fish. and we couldn't release captive bred into the wild because they wouldn't know how to survive

[Stefan-A]

Perhaps more importantly, garters are an important food source for a lot of species, including frogs, fish, birds and other snakes.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Perhaps more importantly, garters are an important food source for a lot of species, including frogs, fish, birds and other snakes.

Well, I guess I'll join the party and say "Leave the gravid WC's to nature." I understand extreme situations (lawnmowers, rescues), but the bottom line is we have no true understanding over whether or not releasing babies from gravid WC mothers will do good or harm. The cycles of nature, of individual species are far more complex than most of us can imagine. If we give the babies a head start and release them into the wild, there is ALWAYS the concern of pathogens, seclusive diets, and (very importantly) the current impact of any introduction of newcomers to an existing population. Timing in nature is often "everything". Here in NW California, raptors, shore birds, predatory mammals, larger fish, snakes and frogs all make meals of baby garters at "strategic" times of the year. Is anyone here well-versed in the seasonal cycles of the predator/prey complex in their local area? Wildlife conservation and management are a challenging beast! Don't think you are making things better with random assumptions!

All I can advise is: Leave the gravids alone! If you go for WC's, start with babies and choose patience before obsession when it comes to all breeding projects! Also, try to stick with CB's if you can... and try to avoid commercial monsters like Petco! They are the epitome of apathy, when it comes to herp knowledge and maintenance.

Steve

[Loren]

If you go for WC's, start with babies and choose patience before obsession when it comes to all breeding projects! Also, try to stick with CB's if you can... and try to avoid commercial monsters like Petco! They are the epitome of apathy, when it comes to herp knowledge and maintenance.

Steve

I agree, while I do collect, I always prefer to collect young, and take captive bred any chance I can, although I have taken some adults. Unfortunately, since my area of interest is in natives, I cant buy cb, and dont get too many oportunities to have them given to me.
I am thrilled that I didnt have to remove a ca. mountain king from the wild but was able to "adopt" one that needed a home(even though the original owner had most likely collected it). My great basin gopher, among others, was born in captivity as well, and it is by far the most gentle gopher snake I have.
I also agree with the Petco statement. I'm sure there are some individual employees here and there that are well educated/experienced, but as a whole, I am far less than impressed with the chain's reputation for reptile care.