Breathing problems?

[the_edsta]

Just giving an update...

I brought her to the Vet and he dewormed her, suspecting perhaps something like a lung worm, and asked that I come back with a fecal sample from her.Well… I didn’t get one right away… and about a week later, she just stops eating.In summary: she didn’t eat in the month of july or in August.She drank water, I would occasionally force a nightcrawler down her throat, but in July she didn’t eat a thing and in August she probably had two nightcrawlers and a piece of white fish.

Honestly, I didn’t think she would still be alive at this point, but the doctor examined her, and only wanted a fecal.The visit cost $160.While we were in there, he noticed she was stiff in the lower 1/3 of her body.In mid-august, I noticed there seemed to be something hard in her… a lump.It didn’t really dawn on me until yesterday that it was ABSOLUTELY some kind of impaction.She was stiff, not eating, and something was happening in her intestinal track.
So… I put her in a warm bath, let her soak for a while, and then grabbed hold of the hard object.I got a good grip on it, and she twisted to get my grip free… I could feel air bubbles going around the lump, and some came out of her cloaca.I held that lump tight and let her fight against me, as it seemed to be budging the thing.After about five minutes of this, out popped this (pic attached)!

What do you think? At first I though substrate... but now it seems like a slug to me... It is about the size, shape, and hardness of a baby carrot (though waxier).

[guidofatherof5]

Retained ovum.(egg, jelly, slug)

[the_edsta]

Thanks Steve. That is where I'm at. I figure more to come.

What would this mean for her as a breeder (assuming she fully recovers, which is by no means certain). OBV the eggs weren't viable, but that could have happened without a male even being involved. Just wondering if this means she could never breed...

[guidofatherof5]

It all depends on whether the ova tract has been damaged. I've heard of normal births after this kind of thing and others that had trouble again or just never bred again. Of course, we're not just talking about breeding it's really about whether the female ovulates and develops ova again.

[d_virginiana]

The slugs don't mean that the snake can't breed in and of themselves. Could be caused by the stress of whatever is causing the breathing issues? If it's that, my guess would be she could breed without any issues. If it's just that she tends to retain ovum, then you might run into it happening again. My exotics vet actually has recommended to me to breed ones that have issues like that, since unfertilized eggs can be harder to pass than babies (especially if they tend to have slugs without being bred).

[joeysgreen]

I"m not going to judge your vet because I wasn't there. I would have liked to perhaps have had some further diagnostics, perhaps imaging. Bloodwork is always nice. The question here is if the retained slug was the problem or not. Your snake very well could still have lungworms or other parasites; they are a common burden in wild caught snakes (and CB ones too). All in all, I would not expect retained ova to cause labored breathing.

[the_edsta]

I"m not going to judge your vet because I wasn't there. I would have liked to perhaps have had some further diagnostics, perhaps imaging. Bloodwork is always nice. The question here is if the retained slug was the problem or not. Your snake very well could still have lungworms or other parasites; they are a common burden in wild caught snakes (and CB ones too). All in all, I would not expect retained ova to cause labored breathing.

I don't think we should expect a causal relationship, really. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Once she is eating again (fingers crossed), then I can get a proper fecal sample and have the vet run the exam.

[the_edsta]

The slugs don't mean that the snake can't breed in and of themselves. Could be caused by the stress of whatever is causing the breathing issues? If it's that, my guess would be she could breed without any issues. If it's just that she tends to retain ovum, then you might run into it happening again. My exotics vet actually has recommended to me to breed ones that have issues like that, since unfertilized eggs can be harder to pass than babies (especially if they tend to have slugs without being bred).

That is interesting. I actually had a 2 yr old male in there with her for a few weeks but I don't think he was quite ready yet. Maybe that added some stress to her life!

[d_virginiana]

Maybe I missed you already saying, but is she wild caught? I've never really kept any wc snakes long term, but I wonder if being trapped in a confined space (since even a big tank is confined compared to being outdoors) with other snakes is more stressful for wc snakes than cb ones? Having a cagemate seems to really de-stress all of mine that I've tried it with, but they're all cb.

[the_edsta]

I got her from someone who was traded her, but I can say based on her condition, temperament, and species (marcianus is heavily traded in the pet industry) she is certainly CB. And a VERY calm garter. One of the few that will find a comfy spot to rest on my arm if I take her out.