san francisco garters

[Tyrel26]

I just found an article on a breeder that has these snakes....the funny part is he is from Canada. Seems that once these snakes get across the border they are legal to own but strictly illegal in the US. In 2004 they were being sold for $1600 a pair, Im not sure if they are still being sold. I will try to contact the breeder just to get more information.

Thanks for reading
Tyrel

[guidofatherof5]

Here's a strange one for you.
There are 2 zoos in the US with S.F. Garters. San Francisco and San Diego Zoos.

I was shocked to learn(from the director of Zoo education) that the captive snake at both zoos came from the Amsterdam Zoo. At this point the US Government won't even allow any US snakes in our zoos.

[Tyrel26]

I read about that as well, one would think that zoos would be encouraged to have these snakes (depending on the zoo of course) rather than be prevented from having them.

[Stefan-A]

I guess the other possiblity is relocation to similar habitat?

Unfortunately, that method could easily turn an endangered species into an invasive one, especially when a species' original range was limited by geographical features. It could also mean the end of that species altogether, if a closely related species occurs in the same region.

[Stefan-A]

Here's a strange one for you.
There are 2 zoos in the US with S.F. Garters. San Francisco and San Diego Zoos.

I was shocked to learn(from the director of Zoo education) that the captive snake at both zoos came from the Amsterdam Zoo. At this point the US Government won't even allow any US snakes in our zoos.

Not surprising, or necessarily bad. Those snakes could only come from one other place: San Francisco.

[guidofatherof5]

I read about that as well, one would think that zoos would be encouraged to have these snakes (depending on the zoo of course) rather than be prevented from having them.

According to the person I spoke to. The Gov. is concidering allowing any found injured S.F garter to be placed at one of the zoos.
My surprise is the fact the US has no breeding program in place other than the orginal gene pool from Europe.

[Jeff B]

quote from Tyrel "I just found an article on a breeder that has these snakes....the funny part is he is from Canada. Seems that once these snakes get across the border they are legal to own but strictly illegal in the US. In 2004 they were being sold for $1600 a pair, Im not sure if they are still being sold. I will try to contact the breeder just to get more information."

Tyrel,
As someone who will be a future conservation officer, I hope you are taking notes, or at least getting a broad perspective on the effects of decisions made, both written law and the enforcement. You sound a little naive yet unjaded, which is very refreshing actually, lol, don't take that as an insult, believe me it is a very high compliment.
Trust me I am a 100% law abiding citizen, I am not anti government or anti laws, in fact I work for state government, but the point I want to make here is that often times good intentioned plans created by people who actually care about any give "said subject" can get "messy" when put into writting after the lawyers and other far removed from the subject people in charge with there own agenda get their hands on them, ect. ect., as well as the excecution and/or enforcement, and things don't always work out as originally planned. I would guess Steve, you have a very good understanding and lots of experience as well with what I am saying here? I'm not bashing the process, that's just the way it is anymore, everything has become so incredibly complicated and sometimes the common sense part gets "accidentallly"thrown out the window in the process.

quote from Tyrel "Has anyone contacted the conservation officials on this? maybe it is possible to obtain a permit or work cooperatively with a zoo or reserve of some type. Of course there would never be any selling of the animals even if they are bred, but the true payoff would be just getting the chance to work with them.
At any rate it may be worth looking into, if you can find the right person a permit may be a possibility, worst anyone can say is no. Granted the chances of this working are very slim but theres still a chance; and like most great ideas it all starts with one person. it would be nice if it started with one of the people from here. "

It's a nice idea, but for me personally, it would take more than finding the right person and a permit, an approval letter from the President and I might think about it, lol, I'm half kidding, but working with a federally protected species even with a permit would be a bit of a "hot potato" to say the least.

[Tyrel26]

Quote "You sound a little naive yet unjaded"

This could be taken in a couple different ways lol but you say its a complement so ill take your word for it.
I have studied laws, read papers, wrote papers....and though many laws are well implemented some still lack a view of the big picture. Many of the laws we abide by were put in place at the time to "save" what was left of something until a better plan could be put into place in the future, the problem is the better plans are sometimes forgotten and it takes some reminding to get the ball rolling again.
Sure it may be "naive" to talk as though a phone call can change things; but everything has to start somewhere.

As for a letter for the President....Ill see what I can do. lol


Thanks for reading
Tyrel

[ConcinusMan]

Once a bill is finalized and becomes law, if there's no provision for allowing exceptions under conditions, it literally takes an act of congress to change the law. A letter from the president will not do. The president cannot give you permission to break a law.

Now, in the case of California Condors the provision is there. Licensed conservationist groups and zoos are allowed to collect eggs to ensure that the eggs and chicks have a high rate of successfully growing up, they are collected and raised until they are independent and then released. this has been highly successful at increasing their numbers. Condor populations got so low because of DDT, poaching, and high chick mortality rates, not lack of suitable habitat.

Unfortunately because of the habitat issue, simply increasing their numbers by perhaps catching gravid females, releasing them when they pop, and raising the young to about a year old, would make little difference since the remaining land bearing sf garters is probably already supporting all the garters that it can, at any given time.

Well intentioned efforts to increase their numbers can hurt a species' survival in the long run, especially when there is so little remaining habitat. Introducing more snakes, or captive acquired snakes(and their genes) or offspring into such a small habitat is not a good idea for a variety of reasons. The only thing wise to do, would be to expand and restore areas adjacent to the remaining populations, closely monitor the habitat environment for issues that could threaten them, and take immediate action to correct it. Last I heard, the population is fairly stable, and only experiences ups and downs consistent with any normal fluctuations that occurs in any population of wild garter snakes. The only thing that's going to get them back to historic numbers is to restore and give them back their historic range; a very expensive and impossible thing to do.

[MasSalvaje]

Once a bill is finalized and becomes law, if there's no provision for allowing exceptions under conditions, it literally takes an act of congress to change the law. A letter from the president will not do. The president cannot give you permission to break a law.

No, but he can pardon you.

-Thomas