Steve's Snake Observations

[count dewclaw]

LeAnn(count dewclaw), you're going to be getting a couple from this group. These are some mighty fine radixes.

Oops, somehow missed this post. Thanks, I'm sure they are special. Spot was such a pretty radix.

[guidofatherof5]

I saw something happen today that I've never observed before. Let me back up a little before I move forward with what I saw.
Last night I found a baby radix on the floor in the big snake room. It's one of the wild babies that's been delivered somewhere in my basement. It was obvious she needed some water and food. I placed her in a small ziplock container a gave her a spray of water. She was very thirsty.
This morning I introduced some pieces of earthworm and baby nightcrawler. She showed no interest at all. 4 hours later the worms remained. I decided to make a guppy run so I bought 50 from the local pet store. I threw about 8 guppies in with a little sauce(guppy water). She once again showed no interest. While feeding some other slow eaters I came across a little scrub that needed fed. Not having another container close I opted to put this snake in with the new found wild one. The second I dropped this snake in it smelled the fish and reacted by actively looking for a guppy. To my surprise the wild snake also started looking for food.
This couldn't have been a food response since the wild one had the same food available to her and for a much longer time.
I think it was a "competition response", that's what I'm calling it. In light of no competition for the food, the one snake didn't feel a need or a want to eat. Once a competitor was introduced then there was a need/want. Both snakes eat their fill of guppies and worms and are resting now. This was a new observation for me and will change the way I attack this non-eater problem.
I'm beginning to think these are some complicated little creatures if you look hard enough. I love it when they teach me something new.

[Charis]

We had a box turtle (slightly off topic) for about 1 1/2 years that was kind of the same way. He ate real good, all kinds of food, for the first 6 months or so. Then he just pared back to where he'd only eat nightcrawlers & peaches & not very much of those. We finally turned him back into the pet store because he was skinny & always seemed to be half in brumation. They put him in with a bunch of other turtles, a different type so he was easy to pick out, and just 3 days later we went back in & he'd gained a lot of weight & looked way more active. We decided that he just needed to have the competition for food. Where garters are a little like turtles, I think, in that they share a limited range with way more garters all together than most other snakes might be why they are used to & need to compete. If that makes sense?

[guidofatherof5]

Here's one for you.
While Speckle was giving birth I would get into her enclosure to check on her and retrieve newborns. In most incidents Speckle would come over to me when she saw me. She would then try to climb on me. She would go up my arm and rest on my shoulders. At one point she stayed there for 15 minutes. To be honest I kept a close eye on her back end since I thought for sure she was going to deliver babies on me. Some of the times she came to me, I would just pick her up and rest her in my arms. Once she was in my arms she would stop moving.
Now, it could have been the warmth of my body but that doesn't explain why she didn't just stay in her heated hide area. Also, if she were just trying to get away or out, why didn't she try to get off of me and down to the floor.
I can't help but think there was a purpose to her resting on me. It was doing her some good. Some calming effect in a stressful time. In comparison, my old dog would come over to me and interact. Whether it was a play fight or just sitting beside me while I watched TV. She was getting something out of the contact.
I'm not sure how else to interpret what happened. I spend a lot of time interacting with my snakes and I believe they get used to people and get something out of the interaction other than food.
I suppose in simplistic terms it could be said that I'm am just part of their environment and they are just adapting to what is presented.
I believe and feel their is more to this life they are living. Many of you on the forum have seen and made that connection I'm taking about. No, not with every snake but you have had those special ones come into your lives and you knew there was more than just instinctive responses happening.
I know that I suffer/enjoy from a severe case of Anthropomorphism and hope I continue to suffer from it as I feel it lets me get the most enjoyment out of this relationship I have with my snakes. I also think it does them the most good.
Thanks for listening to my ramble.

[gregmonsta]

I know my snakes love me back or like me back at the very least

[drache]

those of my snakes I interact with on a regular basis definitely perceive me as an acceptable place to hang out, and also prefer me over other humans

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

I just have to say we need to be careful not to anthropomorphize the situations we experience with our slithery friends.

On the other hand, I totally acknowledge garter behavior to be somewhat of a mystery regarding social nature. Many species are very "social" (careful!), existing in communal pockets... I have found our NW CA ordinoides and sirtalis to be especially communal. The social behaviors of these garters is exciting to observe. They are indeed inquisitive. Those diurnal eyes! I have had them check me out as well. These snakes are very curious.

I also find the notion that competition inciting feeding behavior absolutely amazing. I guess, in a captive environment, feeding scenarios where there are more than one snake in an enclosure, behaviors can be a 2-way toss-up: either competition gets everybody in on the hunt, or it results in plays of dominance where not all get to eat.

[drache]

not sure how to put it any differently, but I do want to be clear
personally I don't perceive a preference of one thing over another (food, temp, environment, etc) to be an exclusively human trait, and I do hope that my perception of my snakes having apparent preferences is not being construed as a form of anthropomorphism
but love . . . ? now that's an entirely human concept and as such not even culturally universal in it's meaning, not to mention all the different forms it takes
for example: I do love our cats and Mikhaila is convinced that they love each other because they do a lot of allo-grooming, whereas I believe that they do it because they're siblings and grew up together. I also don't believe that the fact that they groom me, or suddenly run up to me and touch my cheek with a non-claw paw, is evidence that they "love" me. I do think that they've got some basic social intelligence and are returning some of my strange human gestures because we're part of the same pride (or some such thing) and perhaps because I'm the alpha cat. That's not to say that I don't love when they do that and the sense of companionship I derive from it

[charles parenteau]

Good observation Steve !!I always wear my sunglasse rapalla!!and Garter snake dont like it ,wild garter usuallly calm down when i take it off.
I cant handle any of my garter with my sunglasses because they freak out!!It make me look like an alien with my big eyes they don't like it.


Some becomes crazy when they saw my camera lense.

[guidofatherof5]

*Strange Shed*

Last night I cleaned out and scrubbed down one of my big enclosures. I have these girls on paper towels so I can get a visual on fecals. This group was going to go without water for the night since their dish was in the dish washer.
This morning I popped the lights on and looked into that enclosure. I saw Speckle shedding. She's been due to shed of the last couple of days. She was about 1/4 of the way done so I reached in to help. At first I didn't notice but then I realized the shed was very wet. As if she had just soaked in her water dish. Most, if not all my snakes soak before a shed. The only problem with this situation is the fact she had no water to soak in. Remember I had taken the dish out the night before,
Now, when I say the shed was wet I mean wet and sticky. I've help many snakes shed and have felt this before but that was after a good soaking.
So, how'd the shed get wet? Had she soaked the day before and just retained the moisture? That much moisture! Or did she sweat(the only word I could think of to describe this). As I stated before I've helped many snakes shed and this felt just like a snake that had just gotten out of the water dish. Maybe this is normal and I've just never observed it before.
I read somewhere that snakes release a chemical to help during the shedding process. Could that be the wet I'm feeling on the shed?
What are your thoughts?