help sexing...

[Thamnophis]

My first impression.... male.

[Cazador]

Hey Bob,
Just to give you some perspective, you've got some pretty "heavy-hitters" weighing in, and all of them have been leaning toward your snake being a male, but you can never show too many pictures .

[GarterGuy]

Well I'll throw my two cents in too and vote male.......but definitely not 100%....like Rick was saying more pics would help.

[bob]

thanks guys! never expected so many replies - great forum...

took this pic last night and used the snake measuring software... total length: 17.5", tail: 3.8", body (including head): 13.7".

so a 3.6 : 1 body:tail ratio

if anyone else has done any measurements like these and know for certain the snakes' sex, it would be great if you could post them and maybe we can spot a pattern. thanks again!!!



ps. i'll try and see if i can get a few more better pictures.

[nessy]

what about counting the scales on the tail? i herd that one sex is supposed to have more vertebrae than the other......

[abcat1993]

I don't know about that but I think females have longer tails.

[Cazador]

According to Rossman et. al (1991), males have more vertebrae, more subcaudal scales (between the vent and the tip of the tail, or tail spike), and longer tails. I know the numbers for T.s. concinnus, but I suspect that these numbers would vary from species to species, and probably even between certain subspecies. By the way, these scales are easiest to count in a picture, instead of on a live, moving snake.

[GarterGuy]

According to Rossman et. al (1991), males have more vertebrae, more subcaudal scales (between the vent and the tip of the tail, or tail spike), and longer tails. I know the numbers for T.s. concinnus, but I suspect that these numbers would vary from species to species, and probably even between certain subspecies. By the way, these scales are easiest to count in a picture, instead of on a live, moving snake.

Hmmmm....just what are the ventral scale counts on T.s.concinnus?? I have a snake that was "popped" and said it was a female, but I'd bet the bank it's a male.

[Cazador]

Males have 84-85 subcaudal scales on one side of their body, posterior to the vent. Start counting at the vent when the first two subcaudal scales from different sides actually touch one another. Don't count the first few scales near the vent that don't touch. Females have about 71-72, plus the tail spike.

[nessy]

wow that's quite a big difference, this would be quite a reliable method of sexing then?
do you have the figures for s.parietalis?