Red Spotted Garter Snake

[ConcinusMan]

I'll take the opportunity to jump in and point out that the scientific name should be seen more as a tag, than an accurate, all-encompassing description.

I agree. They are still the same species as far as the current classification goes. So are T.s. parietalis and T.s. pickeringii. I think we had the discussion before, that the only thing that makes a subspecies is range and morph differences. Quite often the separation of subspecies is facilitated by a geographic barrier such as a mountain range. It appears that where a geographic barrier does not exist, or is weak, the morph differences tend to also get weak.

[Stefan-A]

I think we had the discussion before, that the only thing that makes a subspecies is range and morph differences.

Phylogenetics, actually.

[ConcinusMan]

I would have used that word. I had to look it up. Where you have a broader scientific vocabulary, I had to go and make an attempt to say what needed to be said, without that word. I know what the two root words mean, but I had never heard them combined into one word.

Now I'm going to have to read all the articles I can find on "Phylogenetics" and learn something.

I hate it when that happens.

[Stefan-A]

I would have used that word. I had to look it up. Where you have a broader scientific vocabulary, I had to go and make an attempt to say what needed to be said, without that word. I know what the two root words mean, but I had never heard them combined into one word.

Not quite. Morphology deals with structures, while genetics... well, you know what that means. Structures can be similar for a variety of reasons, but there's really only one reason why there are genetic similarities: Common ancestry. Genetics show whether there's gene exchange between two populations and when there isn't any at the moment, it is possible to figure out approximately how long ago it stopped.


offtopic:
My big female wandering garter saw me typing and is now staring at my hands.

[ConcinusMan]

Not quite. Morphology deals with structures, while genetics... well, you know what that means. Structures can be similar for a variety of reasons, but there's really only one reason why there are genetic similarities: Common ancestry. Genetics show whether there's gene exchange between two populations and when there isn't any at the moment, it is possible to figure out approximately how long ago it stopped.


offtopic:
My big female wandering garter saw me typing and is now staring at my hands.

offtopic: You mean, stalking your hands.

On topic: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~fjanz.../02MolEcol.pdf

[Stefan-A]

offtopic: You mean, stalking your hands.

That was implied, yes.

On topic: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~fjanzen/pdf/02MolEcol.pdf

Seen it, read it.

[ConcinusMan]

T.s concinnus (not laterally striped but found where laterally striped ones are found) representative of the species at the northern extreme of the Willamette Valley and SW WA:

Top of head is black or otherwise very dark, chin and throat is often blue or blue/green. Undersides typically black or mottled with blue/green.

[ConcinusMan]

Benton County Oregon (and southward) snakes are usually very brightly colored and the entire head is usually orange. Labials and throat is sometimes yellowish.

[ConcinusMan]

Some snakes representative of NW Oregon but outside of the Willamette Valley where there tends to be a lot of variety even among the same population:

[ConcinusMan]

NW Oregon continued...

Very light colored: "Hypoerythristic"



Some others: