Smelly red goop piles on substrate

[cnphilips]

Any experience on lethargy and these sympotoms? There hadn't been any more bloody piles since Wednesday. I had to wait until my paycheck went in to afford the vet, so I've been soaking and monitoring closely, offering food daily. Blackie still hasn't eaten, but she's also not leaving blood trails or anything. I will go to the vet in the morning, but I've got flagyl (liquid formulation) right now. I already got a flagyl dose in Stripes, via food, but Blackie's had no medication yet.

I can tell Blackie doesn't feel good, she's too still. I know from treating rabbits and mice, once there are outward symptoms of illness its really bad, and you've only got about 24 hours to help, but they can rally back if you avt in time. But I also know that turtles can be sick for a long time before succombing, and they can rally back from some really horrible, prolonged stuff. I know this is weird to ask a forum, but do snakes give you enough time? If she's slowing down now, will she make it to the vet in the morning? I know you can't tell me from a medical point of view, but from an ancedotal experience. Can snakes rally? Any awesome stories of pulling through? Or is it more predicatable that I'm not gonna win this unless I do an emergency vet visit tonight? If a snake is "acting sick" are they already very,very sick?

Basically what I was hoping to get from the forum was an understanding of whether there's a bunch of other things that might cause the same symptoms. Like a live birth issue, or mating, or pigment, or a seasonal change. We should have gotten to the vet already, but now I'm just trying make a good call with what's in front of me right now. What I've got is a sick snake on a Sunday afternoon, and the vet is closed till morning.

[cnphilips]

Oh and thank you. For being there. Your reccomendations for a fecal, and not jumping on medication are valuable.

Here's a video. She's moving to the warm side (85 degrees).

https://youtu.be/DaX5883FSlY

[guidofatherof5]

I see a lot of swelling/edema from the heart down. A Vet. visit is called for A.S.A.P. Hoping and praying for the best.

[d_virginiana]

Agree with Steve, vet visit ASAP.

In general, I think snakes give you plenty of time to react and treat a medical problem. In my experience, once you start to see signs of lethargy (like listlessness, not just being less active) you're looking at a very sick animal and they're probably in the 'danger zone' where they need immediate treatment. As far as rallying back, it just depends on what's wrong. I've seen snakes come back from some really terrible situations, but I think a big concern is whether or not organ damage has occurred.

[cnphilips]

Thanks, yeah she did give me a whole week I just didn't use it well.

Made it through the night. Vet appoint. in 2 hours. I didn't get in with the reptile vet, but at least we're getting help.

This is mostly the freaking out talking but: does that swelling look like a cryptosporidium symptom too? Could it have been transferred by earthworms?

I'll know more after vet, obviously, just super worried at this point....

[guidofatherof5]

I don't think crypo from the worms is likely.

[cnphilips]

You were right, she is swollen in her heart and full of fluid. Treating for parasites, then if no improvement, the treat for heart condition or miscarriage complications. She's close to heart failure, but hasn't happened yet. Breathing is fine.


Had a longer post, but it keeps getting denied.

image.jpg

[guidofatherof5]

Glad some treatment is happening. Garters are much like other animals in the sense that they mask their illness and pain until it becomes critical and then there isn't much time to do anything or they are past the helping stage.
Please keep us posted on this situation.

[joeysgreen]

I don't gain much from the radiograph; perhaps it's just the reproduction on the forum. The positioning isn't adequate for strong use, and a lateral view might be more helpful. If it is truly heart failure, there are medications that can manage the symptoms to extend a good quality of life, but it is ultimately a terminal problem. Was this an older snake?

[cnphilips]

She died at the emergency vet about an hour ago. She started twitching and flipped over. Vet had very little to offer, basically said that's what alot of snakes do right before they die there.

I can not express how heartbroken I am and I can not explain my behavior. I got medication in one snake, not the other and simply failed to act in time. I want badly to delete this whole thread, but I also want to leave it in case some other new snake owner finds their way to the search bar with the same symptoms. I just did not respond with the amount of concern that was justified. I never would have behaved this way with any of my other pets. I just took her casual behavior to mean I had some time, until it was obvious I didn't anymore. I just made all the wrong choices.

Blackie was one half of a pair of snakes that had spent their whole life together, and truly, truly enjoyed each other. I fell in love with them and now I need help caring for her buddy. None of this is fair to him/her and I think the only direction I can go with my devastation is to work harder to be an incredible snake parent for Stripes. So instead of deleting this, tucking my tail and hiding, I have more questions.

Will Stripes grieve too? What's comfort to a lonely snake?
Can Stripes get a new buddy, in time? Was growing up with a friend the only chance he had? Is there an age limit to introducing a new friend, or other major considerations?
Should I get a necropsy of Blackie, for Stripes's sake? I have the cryptosporidium test, so I'll be doing that either way.
Both vets thought Stripes was a girl, but I caught Stripes and Blackie attached (copulating) this spring. How do I confirm Stripe's gender for certain, should I confirm Blackie's through necropsy? Can either gender of garter snake have a companion of the same gender? Are males too territorial?
Is it possible that Blackie had a miscarriage? Any one seen that before?
Is there anything else I need to act on to make things better for Stripes?

Sorry to keep using the forum as my crutch, I just have never had a non-age related death like this with any of my pets, and I'm just feeling a little lost.