Technical "Morph" question

[Stefan-A]

Yes, it *could* happen in nature, but it isn't and that's what selective breeding is - selection of specifics to obtain specifics, in this case a 'morph' in my terminology.

Actually, it does happen in nature. The only difference is in how likely it is to happen.

[infernalis]

Actually, it does happen in nature. The only difference is in how likely it is to happen.

Gertie -

Without trying to sort out the mathematical probability (odds) the likelihood of an albino male and female finding each other in nature is close to nil.

However when a breeder desires a litter of albinos, we can "introduce" the mates to each other.

Every single morph available originated with the "forced" pairing of at least one wild specimen.

Folks have been known to pay out insane sums for wild caught albinos to gain fresh genes for breeding projects.

[Garter_Gertie]

But, Stefan, natural selection is not man-made selective breeding. Two subspecies sharing a given area and breeding is naturual selection, not selective breeding. Selective breeding does not happen in nature.

I think Dekay's example of the snows and two albinos mating are good examples.

[infernalis]

Gertie, "selective breeding" happens in nature every day.

Mating rituals help many animals SELECT a breeding partner.

Darwin's law mandates that weak and inferior specimens are "selected out" by predation.

There are examples of snake colonies where certain colorations survive and others fail, resulting over time in that colony becoming all the same color.

The main difference is in a breeders hands it is MAN that does the selecting. In the wild, circumstance selects who is to breed.

The human race is a good example, a couple hundred years ago (yesterday in evolutionary terms) children born with deformities rarely survived, hell some folks just tossed the baby to the wolves.

As our race has "evolved" people with deformities or handicaps can lead a complete life cycle.

In nature, a crippled deer cannot outrun the coyotes, so it gets naturally removed from the breeding program.

[Stefan-A]

the likelihood of an albino male and female finding each other in nature is close to nil.

Far from nil, actually. It happens all the time and with time, it becomes almost inevitable.

[Stefan-A]

But, Stefan, natural selection is not man-made selective breeding. Two subspecies sharing a given area and breeding is naturual selection, not selective breeding. Selective breeding does not happen in nature.

It really isn't relevant whether selective breeding occurs in nature. It's only a question of adjusting the odds in our favour.

Selective breeding is actually a part of natural selection, but it's a longer story.

[Garter_Gertie]

It really isn't relevant whether selective breeding occurs in nature. It's only a question of adjusting the odds in our favour.

Selective breeding is actually a part of natural selection, but it's a longer story.

Now I'm totally, 100% lost.

I'm still not seeing it, Stefan and Dekay. I'm still stickin' with my current opinion on this one.

[infernalis]

Stefan, please elaborate.....

Let's forget about the folks standing over the den opening and grabbing every "non normal" specimen that emerges....

[Stefan-A]

Gertie, "selective breeding" happens in nature every day.

Mating rituals help many animals SELECT a breeding partner.

Darwin's law mandates that weak and inferior specimens are "selected out" by predation.

There are examples of snake colonies where certain colorations survive and others fail, resulting over time in that colony becoming all the same color.

The main difference is in a breeders hands it is MAN that does the selecting. In the wild, circumstance selects who is to breed.

The human race is a good example, a couple hundred years ago (yesterday in evolutionary terms) children born with deformities rarely survived, hell some folks just tossed the baby to the wolves.

As our race has "evolved" people with deformities or handicaps can lead a complete life cycle.

In nature, a crippled deer cannot outrun the coyotes, so it gets naturally removed from the breeding program.

Wayne, that's a gross misrepresentation of natural selection. I really don't know where to begin, maybe it's best if I just point you towards Gene-centered view of evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Stefan-A]

Stefan, please elaborate.....

Let's forget about the folks standing over the den opening and grabbing every "non normal" specimen that emerges....

Now I'm totally, 100% lost.

I'm still not seeing it, Stefan and Dekay. I'm still stickin' with my current opinion on this one.

Where did I lose you?