Sea Otters: yet another slap in the face!

[infernalis]

How is anyone supposed to know what is reffered to in a 4 word reply?

[Stefan-A]

How is anyone supposed to know what is reffered to in a 4 word reply?

How about now? I edited my reply a little.

edit: it doesn't seem like the native Americans had much of a choice either and some of the greater societies don't seem that eco-friendly either.

[guidofatherof5]

Wayne, That's a specific example and a good one. I was referring to an overall observation of conservation. Taking but putting back. Taking but also thinking of the future and not exhausting a resource. Looking at the impact before just taking. That was the intent to my post.

[infernalis]

How about now? I edited my reply a little.

As did I, However you were focusing an a different context of Steves post. Easy to do isn't it

[infernalis]

Wayne, That's a specific example and a good one. I was referring to an overall observation of conservation. Taking but putting back. Taking but also thinking of the future and not exhausting a resource. Looking at the impact before just taking. That was the intent to my post.

I have some mixed blood in my family, so I do tend to be less appreciative of so called progress than others.

edit: it doesn't seem like the native Americans had much of a choice either and some of the greater societies don't seem that eco-friendly either.

They had a choice, if a brave got caught taking a deer just for the antlers, he would be punished for it. Severly.

Folks from the other side of the atlantic would leave entire herds of dead buffalo to rot on the ground just for fun, target practice.

[Stefan-A]

They had a choice, if a brave got caught taking a deer just for the antlers, he would be punished for it. Severly.

Again, not what I was referring to. Technologically, they were far less advanced than their European contemporaries, they couldn't have done the same things even if they had wanted to. In other words, they didn't have a choice.

[infernalis]

Again, not what I was referring to. Technologically, they were far less advanced than their European contemporaries, they couldn't have done the same things even if they had wanted to. In other words, they didn't have a choice.

This is very true, and believe me Physics & math (2 laws that cannot be broken) are things I worship as much as nature

So maybe the native Americans could not build a machine from deer antlers, But look what those machines have cost our planet now.

I am not anti progress in any way, think about it, I'm debating with a man half way around the world sitting in front of a Machine made from plastic and silica....

It's the philosophy that got lost as man progressed, I just think that if Europeans and Americans (I refuse to call anyone who is not from India, and Indian) could have gotten together and exchanged thoughts as we do today, the end result may have been even slightly different.

The "superiority complex" of the Europeans forbid them from learning much from the Americans.

You live in a tent, I live in a castle so I spit in your face savage man.

[adamanteus]

There is also one environmental deed that is a complete taboo. It has to do with a certain biological imperative, and I don't think most people would seriously even consider it.

A time may come when we may have to consider it, like it or not.

[Stefan-A]

So maybe the native Americans could not build a machine from deer antlers, But look what those machines have cost our planet now.

Technology is a two-edged sword. On one hand, we can do a lot of harm with what we've created, but on the other hand what we've created isn't the only threat and what we've created has the potential to prevent those threats, or at the very least might allow us to prepare for them. I don't know if there's any point in using examples, but we would be able to notice a climate change regardless of its cause, or with a certain accuracy detect asteroids that might be a threat to us. People are actually working on ideas on how these threats could be dealt with and that's not something a primitive hunter/gatherer people could do or even imagine.

It's the philosophy that got lost as man progressed,

Historically, people have rarely had a philosophy that you could call eco-friendly. Even the most primitive hunter-gatherers and early slash&burn farmers (at least some indians) of our past lived very wasteful lifestyles. It was on the magnitude of slaughtering entire herds of animals, just picking the best parts of the animal to feed a handful of people and simply leaving the rest to rot. People never really had a philosophy in the actual sense, they either didn't have the tools do something like that or they didn't live that kind of life at all.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that other animals can be just as wasteful when they get the opportunity. They rarely do, but it does happen.

The "superiority complex" of the Europeans forbid them from learning much from the Americans.

Noble savage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Garter_Gertie]

Stefan, first: Wikipedia is not the end-all to everything. ANYONE can go there and post whatever.

Second: If I'm reading you correctly, I REALLY disagree with you. "Historically, people have rarely had a philosophy that you could call eco-friendly. Even the most primitive hunter-gatherers and early slash&burn farmers (at least some indians) of our past lived very wasteful lifestyles. It was on the magnitude of slaughtering entire herds of animals, just picking the best parts of the animal to feed a handful of people and simply leaving the rest to rot. People never really had a philosophy in the actual sense, they either didn't have the tools do something like that or they didn't live that kind of life at all."

To whom are your referring here? Not us -as in the first native Americans? Good heavens, man! Even sapping for maple syrup they gave thanks and only took what was needed.

Teddy Roosevelt slaughtered entire heards, not the indiginous people. He killed more buffalo in one day than the Natives took in weeks in the fall hunt! Back in the 1800s, it was SPORT to shoot buffalo out the windows of the train when going though the west.

The first people here were very eco-friendly.

Dekay, don't lose the true meaning of Thanksgiving. It truly had good intentions. It was to give thanks to those that helped the newcomers. Things may have gone down the crapper since then, but... The idea of Thanksgiving to give thanks. Give thanks for what you've done, for the animals you've saved, the friends you have.

You can't change history. And you've no part in what has happened in the last 300 years. You can only change the future. Give thanks for that.