Steve's Snake Observations

[Sonya610]

There, you see? still boils down to food.

Yeah the food thing creates an amazing change for some! The little Concinnus really does not want me looking at him, God forbid touching him! But if food is involved he is suddenly fearless, chasing my hand, occasionally nipping the fingers, and charging towards me out of the enclosure given the chance!

The little flame is very different, he is out and visible 95% of the day, he is curious about everything "just because" and he seems to find the activity of the human interesting whether it involves food or not, feeding time is fun but he has to think about it and analyze whether he really wants to eat what is being offered. I am going to lower the cage so he can see more of the room, on the rare occasion he peaks out and sees the four legged animals below he is obviously enthralled!

They really do have such incredibly unique personalities.

[Sonya610]

IMHO, FWIW, while I believe you should be careful about over anthropomorphizing animals, because there are limits to their behaviors, intelligence etc, they are not humans and are not going to act or think about things the way a human would.

Limits to their behaviors and intelligence as compared to what species? Sounds like you have a mighty high opinion of humans!

Keep in mind it isn't always about anthropomorphizing, many of us like them simply because they are NOT human! Different species have different brains, different thoughts, different talents, different ways of perceiving the world, different life experiences. Different does not imply inferior or superior.

Remember snakes have been around a whole lot longer than we have; they have seen plenty of "superior animals" come and go.

[Charis]

I actually wasn't weighing their superiority or lack thereof, like you said, I just meant that a solitary animal, while it may learn some social behaviors through forced interaction, their first instinctual reaction to an overture from you may not be the appropriate one that other social animals might get. There are some normal to that species behaviors, instincts, hierarchies, etc. that should be taken into account when interacting with any animal. For instance, showing teeth is a good sign to humans (and a few animals) but for most animals, it would be a threat.

[guidofatherof5]

Today I had some time to work with my Northwesterns(T. ordinoides).
They seem to like being fed off the hemostats. These are some cute smaller garter snakes.
While feeding them I saw some interesting behavior. If one snake was at the food dish waiting to be fed and another snake started out to get some food. The first snake would rush over and confront the other. Staring them down and using some false strikes(mouth closed strike) in an attempt to turn the other snake away.
Sometimes this tactic would work and other times the snake ignored the strikes and came to the food dish.
Size meant nothing as even the smallest snake would try this. With good results sometimes.
My Nothwesterns are a wonderful group. They aren't flashy or large snakes but what they lack in those categories they make-up for with good attitudes and behavior.
If you ever have the opportunity to work with these snakes I would say do it.
You won't be disappointed.

[kibakiba]

Thumbelina would chase Ember around the tank if he had a pinky. He doesn't care whose bigger than him or if the food is bigger, he just wants to bite onto the pinky. They're silly snakes. I love them.

[guidofatherof5]

The other day I was working with one of my big groups of big female radixes.
Unbeknownst(first time I've used that word) to me my girl Tourette went out on a walkabout(she escaped)
About 30 minutes later I was standing right next to the enclosure resting my hand between the upper and lower enclosures.
Suddenly I felt something touch my hand. I looked down and saw Tourette looking up at me.
I turned my hand over and she climbed over my palm and up my arm. She came to rest on my shoulder and we watched TV for awhile.
When Judge Judy was over I opened her enclosure and she went back home
They are very comfortable snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

IMHO, FWIW, while I believe you should be careful about over anthropomorphizing animals, because there are limits to their behaviors, intelligence etc, they are not humans and are not going to act or think about things the way a human would. Still, I think it's wrong to go the other way, if you are expecting a "dumb animal" you generally get a dumb animal.

I mostly agree. While there is intelligence, learning, and even social interaction, what motivates a snake's behavior is not the same things that motivate ours. They do have "emotions" and responses but for the most part, those emotions and motivations can not be anthropomorphized accurately. For example, snakes do not "cuddle" with other snakes for the same reasons that we would "cuddle" with other people. Their motivations are not the same as what motivates us, even if the behaviors seem the same as ours.

Until my "tamest" snakes learned that I was the provider of food and all comforts that snakes seek, they had no desire to "cuddle" with me or even come anywhere near me. Once again, it boils down to what motivates them. They do not seek me out for socializing or "cuddling". They seek me out for different reasons. Food. And perhaps they feel a bit more secure knowing I will not eat them, and I'm much bigger and scarier than just about any predator that would attempt to eat them. In other words, I'm their big scarecrow, keeping away predators and making sure they get fed.

Their responding to that by interacting with us can be mistaken for affection but I do not believe they feel that for us. They're just "using" us. That's right. Like I said, different motivations. The crocodile might think that the bird that cleans his teeth does so out of affection, but we know what the real reason is. Food, and security. That's what motivates the bird.

Their ability to adapt to captivity and use us to get what they need is a testament to their intelligence.

[d_virginiana]

Their responding to that by interacting with us can be mistaken for affection but I do not believe they feel that for us. They're just "using" us. That's right. Like I said, different motivations. The crocodile might think that the bird that cleans his teeth does so out of affection, but we know what the real reason is. Food, and security. That's what motivates the bird.

Their ability to adapt to captivity and use us to get what they need is a testament to their intelligence.

I sort of agree, but sort of not... Any sort of friendly or altruistic behavior in any animal (including humans) can be construed as a mechanism that evolved for the purpose of gaining resources or promoting the survival of genetically similar individuals such as family members. There's no proof either way, just a point of view really. I like to think that there's more to most animals than just self-serving instinct..

Snakes can't use facial expressions, vocalizations, or any of the communication mechanisms we do and we can't use any of theirs. It's impossible to form the sort of bond with a snake you get with a dog. That doesn't mean that the snake doesn't enjoy a person's presence for any reason other than heat or food. I've had Houdini for 11 years now, but only recently have I really been working with him. He's known his whole life that I am a piece of heated furniture that gives him food. Never bitten, never musked, never even been skittish of me. He also never cared whether or not anyone was in the room. In just the past few months since I've really been working with him he will react to me whenever I go past his cage and launch an escape attempt if I don't immediately get him out and hold him for a minute. This could just be him using me to get out of his tank, but I like to think there's at least some primitive form of affection behind it.

[RedSidedSPR]

The other day I was working with one of my big groups of big female radixes.
Unbeknownst(first time I've used that word) to me my girl Tourette went out on a walkabout(she escaped)
About 30 minutes later I was standing right next to the enclosure resting my hand between the upper and lower enclosures.
Suddenly I felt something touch my hand. I looked down and saw Tourette looking up at me.
I turned my hand over and she climbed over my palm and up my arm. She came to rest on my shoulder and we watched TV for awhile.
When Judge Judy was over I opened her enclosure and she went back home
They are very comfortable snakes.

Wow, that's awesome. I have a feeling if my snakes got out, they'd be gone

[d_virginiana]

Wow, that's awesome. I have a feeling if my snakes got out, they'd be gone

Mine would turn into catfood after about five minutes.