Stefan's garters

[Stefan-A]

How easy is it to get equipment in Finland? Do you rely on mail-order? Microclimate thermostats get my vote.

Difficult. If the local pet store doesn't have any, I'm going to have order it and apparently there's only one online store that sells thermostats and they're the ones that sold me the one that broke. I get to choose between Lucky Reptile and Zoo Med.

[gregmonsta]

Damn ... you might be better ordering from abroad if possible. I don't know anyone that uses either of those brands here. Habistat and microclimate are the most used here in Britain. Microclimate is my favourite because it will just switch off if it fails.

[Stefan-A]

Damn ... you might be better ordering from abroad if possible. I don't know anyone that uses either of those brands here. Habistat and microclimate are the most used here in Britain. Microclimate is my favourite because it will just switch off if it fails.

Unfortunately, PayPal doesn't support the Visa Electron that my bank issues, otherwise I would. Maybe I can rig something to use my old, perfectly functioning aquarium thermostat.

Of course I could make a thermostat, too, but that wouldn't be safe or practical.

[ConcinusMan]

I currently use and have used zoo med thermostats. I've always used them way under the capacity they are rated for. They lasted years for me. Combine that with appropriate wattage heat emitters(where practical) and florescent lighting and you have one great energy efficient setup for reptiles.

But we're talking eggs here. I've had success in several ways. One way was to place the eggs on a mesh above a volume of water heated by an inexpensive aquarium heater with it's own thermostat. It's a little tricky but once you get it constant and all is good, it works. Humidity and temperature needs vary depending on species of course. I hatched Sceloporus lizards (several species), Uta stansburiana elegans and Coluber constrictor mormon eggs in nothing but a plastic container with lid and a few holes on top, damp (not wet) vermiculite and kept the container between 80-90 degrees F. (I placed it on top of an electric water heater!) But then again, I incubated american robin eggs for 10 days successfully using nothing but a cardboard box, a spray mister, water dish, and a light bulb. Two of the five went on to become mature adults (a hen and a **** DO'H!... male) their names were Robin and Robert. I my story appeared in the local newspaper. I was 7 years old. They went on to live their lives in an aviary. Beyond that year (1977) it was nothing but garter snakes for me!

All these options require very careful and close monitoring though.

I was poor and there was no internet to order cool stuff. Seems like a substrate-less reptile incubator is the way to go now. For less valuable eggs you can take your chances with a cheap styrofoam incubator. It can, and often does work.

[ConcinusMan]

I had my doubts. If anyone would have been taking bets I would bet that he wouldn't do well. So glad that I'm wrong so far. Get the little guy to grow and get past that 6 month mark, and you have yourself what I would NOT call an EPIC FAIL. A flop maybe, but not an epic fail.

[Stefan-A]

My former Zoo Med thermostat was rated for something like 500W. I was using it for two 40W lightbulbs. Anyway, I stopped using bulbs last summer. I rebuilt my enclosures to use heat pads instead, which took care of the overheating problems I was having during the hottest months.

Anyway, when I said I could probably rig something using my aquarium thermostat (I meant "heater"), a "bain marie" incubator was exactly what I had in mind. I've had it up and running since yesterday afternoon and it's holding steady at 30 degrees. I will be using substrate, though.

[ConcinusMan]

Sounds good. I didn't want to get into details but a "bain marie" incubator is not a bad idea at all for temperate zone reptiles. The temperature for the species I incubated actually did fluctuate daily from a minimum low of about 74 F to a maximum high of about 90 F. I got both males and females and very few, if any, failed to hatch.

I've also tried constant around 90 F. Ended up with all males and higher failure rate. Tried constant 75 F. Took a long time to hatch and got mostly females. The daily fluctuation method worked out better. If you use the bain marie method and the room fluctuates from day to night, and that is reflected on the eggs' thermal exposure, it's not a bad thing.

I imagine that in one's effort to provide easy living, it can cause failure to produce viable offspring if the mother is kept too warm. Sometimes that means cooling her down quite a bit nightly against her will. And NO heatpads.

I know that sometimes, it pains me to turn off the heat when the snakes seem to be enjoying it but I do it for their own good. A nice cool down (60-65 F if possible) for at least 8 hours a night really does benefit most garters.

[Stefan-A]

Everything here is on a timer and I provide a heat gradient during the day. That establishes both a daily rhythm and allows the snake to seek out an optimal temperature.

[ConcinusMan]

Significant drop at night? Say 10 degrees lower than the daytime cool spot? Just checking. I know that is not possible to achieve sometimes but if you can do it it's not a bad thing. Snake may seek out the warmest spot sometimes even if it's not in their best interest. This is just my personal experience with a few species so take the info and do as you wish. Just sharing. Mine just seem to be more alive and more vigor if I stick to that. Some know whats good for them, and for others, what's good for them must be imposed upon them. I still have reservations about using bottom heat for gravid females. I'm not suggesting anything related to the failure but it's just not what I would do.

But I drifted back to the garters. We briefly were talking about some viper eggs? Some people insist that vermiculite or any substrate is bad. I don't have a problem with it for lizards that dig chambers in moist earth or snakes that lay eggs in moist rotting leaf litter. Just have to monitor the moisture carefully. Temperature for the eggs I have incubated can fluctuate quite a bit and still result in high success rate. When using vermiculite use your nose daily. Check for that dirty earth (mold) smell. Catch it early and dry them out a bit and they'll be fine.

[Stefan-A]

The coolest part of the enclosure during the day and the whole enclosure during the night is room temperature, which is at least 10-15 C lower than the basking area during the day.