Pied Garters.. Has anyone seen this?

[ConcinusMan]

Nailed it Jason! Write that down Richard and in a few years you can regurgitate it as your vison.

Not exactly a new concept. I already said the same thing when I was trying to acquire that albino northwestern. I figured it had the potential to do the same thing, specifically for the T. ordinoides species. To bring the species out of obscurity. Of course nobody heard me already say basically the same damn thing so don't talk to me about regurgitating it as my vision. I already said it earlier and I'm sure others had the same idea before me.

Now, a few of the really nice examples of T. ordinoides I have caught and shared pictures of in the past couple of years, I believe, have brought more attention to them and more interest, and those were mainly just normals. Just think what I could do if I had the only albino northwestern in captivity. Just like what you're saying about having the piebald. Given the high degree of polymorphism, truly unique albinos could be created.

Oh by the way, Jason your snakes shipped out tonight and I included an extra surprise FREE pair of hypo x green axanthic chicagos ($400 list price)....just because I am so money driven greedy

Just for the record, I didn't hear anybody call you greedy. I don't think anybody here thinks you're greedy including myself.

..oh wait that would mean I won't be able to quite my day job and be a snake bumb and write garbage on this forum all day long.

Uh yeah. Some of us have the kind of job where we can post while we're at work and on the clock. I have such a job. Once the evaporators are up and running all there is for me to do is take samples once an hour and run them to the lab. The rest of the time, it's just watching the dang thing and switching feed tanks when one becomes empty.

[Jeff B]

I think if I would have been working with at the time or wanted to work with ordinoides I would have been interested in that albino, but the fact is I have never owned an ordinoides. I just didn't have any interest in working with them at the time, nor do I now, of course that is subject to change. Plus I wasn't real comfortable with the deal or that kind of deal with someone I don't know or trust.
Richard why didn't you aquire that albino when you had the opportunity, seems your the only one really heart broke over it?
My focus over the next few years will be the pied and plugging other morphs into it, so no danger of inbred F6 here, I have lots of unrelated females of various morphs to plug pied into. It will be nice if my hard work and investment with the pied will at least pay for food and supplies, but if it never makes me a penny you won't hear me whining and crying about it. Hell, I had a terrible production and sales this season and I will probably be claiming a 4-5K loss on my business taxes this year. Will that stop me from breeding? No, so what's my motivation, if not for the love of working with the animals and the love of creating and sharing the hobby with others?

[jitami]

Jeff, you've always been on the up and up and I really look forward to seeing what you produce. Best of luck with all of your projects!

[ConcinusMan]

Richard why didn't you aquire that albino when you had the opportunity

I've already explained that numerous times. I guess you still missed it.

seems your the only one really heart broke over it?

It's always sad to see a very rare and probably once in a lifetime opportunity go down the drain, don't you think? Heartbroke? Not really, but to say that your pied and the opportunity to bring it into the hobby and make new morphs is any less important than the albino ordinoides is to have a double standard. What if any of the albino strains we have today had been so rare that only one had been found in many decades, and what if they had never been brought into production? What if the only "Iowa" albino found in 30 years had slipped away and never got to breed? (obviously that didn't happen since they are found nearly every year) Think about it. The one albino T. ordinoides wasnt' very spectacular and in itself wasn't very significant (other than it's extreme rarity) but with the polymorphism of T. ordinoides, even more was at stake. Like producing truly one a of kind snakes from that one gene. Not just a bunch of carbon copies. Surely you can see that.

No, I'm not the only one sad that it slipped away. Like I said, I had people put up money for me to buy it. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough. There were other problems with aquiring it. Mainly the fact that this was just a kid who cared nothing about any of this and knew even less about reptiles, much less garter snakes and the hobby as a whole.

[Jeff B]

Yeah I don't under estimate the potiential of that snake for someone working with ordinoides like yourself or others, but I'm not sure that snake would have arrived to my house regardless how much money I threw at it. The pied has more to offer for me because I have more easterns, in terms of total number of snakes as well as different morphs to cross into pied, not to mention I have done a lot of business with Bill so I am very comfortable moving the kind of funds and trade animals into the het pieds project via Bill. Just because you have a snake doesn't mean you can sell it, even I have felt that. As it turns out I have almost as much invested in this group of hets as if I would have just bought the female pied in the first place but I am more comfortable with my risk/reward from both a business and personal standpoint with the way it all played out.

[ConcinusMan]

Then that's all that matters. You're satisfied. Now I'm routing for you. I won't be active in the forum much longer. I might even be largely absent for a year or three, and I'm sure that won't break anyone's heart but I assure you I will be paying attention and waiting to see how this pans out.

[annulataarethebest]

Jeff, I don't mean to sidetrack the topic here... But can you really claim a $5,000 loss on taxes for snakes???? I'm just asking because I've probably spent $20,000 on snakes this year and did not get anywhere near that much in return...

[jitami]

Jeff, I don't mean to sidetrack the topic here... But can you really claim a $5,000 loss on taxes for snakes???? I'm just asking because I've probably spent $20,000 on snakes this year and did not get anywhere near that much in return...

I'll let Jeff be more specific, but generally, yes. If you run your hobby like a business and every so many years you show a profit you can claim the losses in off years. I don't know if you need a business license or what the specifics are, though.

[ConcinusMan]

Jeff, I don't mean to sidetrack the topic here... But can you really claim a $5,000 loss on taxes for snakes???? I'm just asking because I've probably spent $20,000 on snakes this year and did not get anywhere near that much in return...

You don't have to pay business taxes on losses, obviously. When a business (and yes, that means a legit registered, tax paying business) goes to figure their taxes on their gross sales, any net losses can be deducted. He's not talking about personal taxes. You may have spent $20,000 but that's not the same as a business taking a $20,000 loss. You have inventory to show for your money I would assume, minus any upkeep expenses.

[Jeff B]

Well it is a bit complicated, and that is why I pay an accountant to figure most of it out and fill out forms ect. but Garter Snake Morph is a licenced and registered sole proprietorship business, for which I have to keep track of all expenditures and sales, and claim and pay taxes. I am estimating based on previous total expenditures and the lack of total gross production and sales that I will be very negative this year, at the very least several K. and if it wasn't for some ball python babies that I produced sales would be much more negative. I also did some investing this year. Next year I will really need to limit purchases and have reasonable sales to at least show a small profit or probably just fold the business.