Clumsy baby

[ConcinusMan]

Nevermind. I try to help and all I get is a blast of ship lately.

[kibakiba]

Well maybe you should lighten the tone of you're posts, you always seem rude and accusing when you respond, have you ever thought that, that might be the reason?

[ConcinusMan]

Accusing? show me. Show me where I accuse. 'nuff said.

[Floof]

Er... Just an idea, but maybe you should get a thermostat to hook the heater to? If you put the probe in one of your snakes' enclosures and hook the heater to the output, it will be able to turn the heater on/off as necessary to keep the tanks at the desired temperature... You might have to suck it up and get a Ranco ($80 new and prewired from a company like Reptile Basics--Thermostats - Reptile Basics Inc, unless you can find one used for cheaper) to assure you have enough wattage to run the heater safely and enough cord length to reach the enclosures, but spending a lot of money is the name of the game when you're trying to keep reptiles alive and healthy. A good thermostat is the safest way you can go to make sure your snakes aren't getting too hot or cold. Actually, you should already have a thermostat if you're using a heat pad on any of your enclosures, because a standard heat pad can exceed 140*F, more than hot enough to kill your snake. Just last week, I measured one that had been running for about 12 hours at over 160*F. That's getting near fatal even for my heat-loving cockroach colony, let alone a cool-climate garter snake.

On the thermostat and hygrometer subject, you can get small, inexpensive indoor/outdoor thermometers at stores like Walmart that measure ambient temperature at the unit ("indoor") and at a separate probe or sensor ("outdoor"). Some also measure humidity at either or both points. The most basic ones run $10, but they're worth the investment to be sure your snakes aren't being cooked, and, quite honestly, they're NOT a negotiable piece of equipment in snake keeping. Make sure whatever thermometer/hygrometers you get are digital, because the stick-on and dial types are all incredibly unreliable and inaccurate and not worth the money you'd be wasting on them.

I don't see where ConcinnusMan is being accusing. To be honest, I'm amazed and impressed that he's still here trying to help you when every one of your responses to his very good, reasonable advice is essentially a "SCREW YOU" and a slap in the face. Even if you don't mean it that way, it's even more upsetting to the people giving the advice to have it thrown back at them (whether it's because you "can't afford it" or any other excuse, true or no) than it is for you when someone gives you honest advice ("to keep your snakes healthy, you have to do this which happens to cost money"). ConcinnusMan has been MORE than accommodating, has stuck around to give you advice even though every little piece of it has been thrown back in his face, and has even tried to help you by trying to find supplies he can send you for free. He has gone above and beyond trying to help you out... And you turn around and accuse him of having an accusatory tone, something that, chances are, YOU read into his post completely on your own. Really, it's painful just to read this thread, and it saddens me to watch you take ConcinnusMan for granted and ignore everything he says.

[ConcinusMan]

"every one of your responses to his very good, reasonable advice is essentially a "SCREW YOU" and a slap in the face."

I thought perhaps I was being completely crazy for feeling like that's what was happening and perhaps I just have a perception problem. You see it too. Whew! I thought I was losing it.

[Floof]

"every one of your responses to his very good, reasonable advice is essentially a "SCREW YOU" and a slap in the face."

I thought perhaps I was being completely crazy for feeling like that's what was happening and perhaps I just have a perception problem. You see it too. Whew! I thought I was losing it.

Lol! Not losing it at all, unfortunately. I really am impressed with your patience in this situation. I've been following this thread since I joined the forum, and every time I open a "Clumsy Baby Update" email, I come very close to just unsubscribing because, honestly, it's painful to read. Unfortunately, when I start reading a thread, I'm compulsed to finish it and follow it until it dies. Even a thread like this, where just reading makes me exhausted, and I'm afraid to post because I know my advice will be ignored.

TBH, the thermostat thing first occurred to me a few pages ago when the temperature issue first came up, but put off saying anything about it because I expect her to automatically shut down and say "I can't do that, I don't have enough money" the moment I utter the word "buy," "purchase," or "cost." Whether or not the money issue is a real problem in her household, it is truly unfortunate for the snakes that she can't muster up a few dimes or, presumably, get a part time job, even if it's just dog walking for the neighbor, so she can do better by these animals SHE has insisted on bringing into her home and caring for. I'm starting to really see why even youngsters with high-income parents are heavily criticized for getting animals they can't pay for by themselves... Then you get a youngster who comes in whose parents, it sounds like, can hardly afford to feed the family, god forbid half a dozen or so pet snakes.

To the OP, I'm sorry if I sound at all "accusatory" in my post, because I am not being that at all... I simply have a bad habit of being brutally honest. I would like nothing more than to see you succeed and your snakes thrive, but that simply cannot happen if you refuse to go to any of the necessary expenses to keep them healthy.

[ConcinusMan]

Well, to be honest, I didn't know about her situation at the time I sold her the two concinnus babies or I might have thought twice about it. I had no idea that her house was so cold in the winter and her only source of heat was, well, much less than ideal.

I'm not saying that being not-so well off will prelcude me from selling snakes to someone but honestly, If I knew it would be such a struggle, I probably wouldn't have sent any at all at any price or gave them away for just shipping cost. She already had some WC northwesterns to keep her company, and they're tough as nails, even in cold or less than ideal conditions.

Still, even as the situation is, she's done a great job of taking care of them and the babies I sent are growing and thriving. That's better than if I had sent them to someone with tons of money to buy this stuff, but then they turn around and neglect them or don't care for them properly. As you know, babies go downhill fast if not properly cared for. She's had them quite a while and they are not only OK, but growing fast too.

[Floof]

No one can blame you for not intimately understanding your customer's situation. However, I am glad to hear she is doing well enough by them for the snakes to be thriving and growing. That proves that I was at least somewhat wrong in my perception of what her snakes' health must be like--throughout this thread, I'd come to start imagining all the negative possibilities, especially with the more recent development of one of the Concinnus becoming unruly for presumably environmental reasons.

Maybe garter snakes are different, but my knowledge of other snake species says most will go off feed or display some other, usually physical, sign of stress before they start developing "behavioral" problems from the same... So with Ember acting "strange" likely due to what's probably unstable temperature and humidity, I automatically jumped to the conclusion that he's likely not eating especially well, or otherwise not thriving.

It's nice to be wrong about things like that...

[ConcinusMan]

I agree, they are probably uncomfortable at this time, as I already stated. Hot dry wind from a space heater blowing directly at them from 6 feet away is unacceptable. They'd be better off if they were allowed to get cold for the winter. Unless she's living in a closet, I just find it hard to swallow that she can't direct the heater away from them.

[kibakiba]

Yeah, saying "SCREW YOU" to Cman is worth it for the "f off" and "shut the f up" I got tyvm. I don't need jerks telling me I'm not taking care of my snakes properly, I make 700 dollars a month, all our mills take up 500 leaving 200 for food and the animals we have. A dog, a cat, a parrot and 6 snakes. We're over a few thousand in debt so screw off. I cant afford anything other than what we have. My snakes are acting fine now, I had already said Ember was acting fine that day and none of the others were acing like that. Geez.
Embers eating fine, pooping, active, etc, he just had a few weeks of being weird. it's not the damn heat. Squirts heating pad is low, it probably doesn't even keep him that warm.
I'm through with this.