Force Feeding vs Assist Feeding

[brain]

So, just as a general rule here. How long would or could one let a young garter go with out food. I don’t yet have any (but hopefully this springJ) at this point.

I have teased, forced and waited out Corns and Kings with no ill after effects. And I have waited out my neo-nate rosy for as long as four weeks. And that was a tense month rosy being smaller thane the earlier.

Now to wait out a neo garter … hum could be rough on my nerves.

I’m here to learn before I jump in. What have I learned;

• feed on salmon, tilapia, and pinks
• Silver Sulfadiazine is your friend
• I can keep same sex species together
• brumation down to 50 degrees for three months
• Lighting ???? haven’t learned that yet. I guess it will be the same as the rest of my room where I don’t use any because there ample natural lighting.
• temperature ?? again under tank pad and maintain the room temp at 89 degrees should be good. Monitor snake individual temp with Rayteck adjust accordingly.
• substrate any thing other than cedar or pine (which I don’t use anyway) stay with the aspen and wood pellets.

Anything anyone else would suggest but be appreciated

Michael

[mtolypetsupply]

I was so nervous, shaking and stuff. I was sad about Caramel passing away, and know we needed to get some food in these non-feeders, but dreaded "making" them eat.

Well, it was a success! We didn't get much into them, just a half pinky head each, but they swallowed on their own, and we didn't have to do more than put it far enough in their mouths. The one baby is only weighing in a 4 sad little grams, so I think something is better than nothing, right?

Anyway, I'm very happy, and though I shook like a leaf on the first feed, after that went well, I was a steady-handed PRO (well, it would have looked like it if you didn't know better) on the second one. And I have to say, my hubby was a Rock, being the Head-Holder-mouth-opener guy.

I'll try and get some pics of the cute little babies sometime soon.

[olive oil]

That is great news!

[jitami]

Stephi, somehow I missed why you needed to force or assist feed, but I'm so glad all went well!

[mtolypetsupply]

Stephi, somehow I missed why you needed to force or assist feed, but I'm so glad all went well!

Well, I'll start from the beginning then. I myself have ADD(isn't there a thread with strains of ADD/ADHD through it now? ), so I don't know what I've posted, and don't have the patience to look through all my old posts.

At the Hamburg show, we got 6 non-feeding corn snakes from an exhibitor there. Don't get me wrong, he was totally honest about them being non-feeders, and only sold them to me for $20 for all 6. Well, we got them home, and 3 ate on their own. Yipee!!!

Sadly, 3 didn't. One, that we thought would be fine, passed away yesterday. We did figure he'd last at least a week without force feeding him. Poor little caramel!!!!! So, we decided to go the assist-feed route. After some great feedback from some people I PM'ed, Gary and I tried opening their mouths with a playing card (tip from Steve, guidofatherof5) and putting half a pinky head in their mouth with hemostats, then holding *really* still (tip from Shannnon, who also got non-feeders of the same batch and had success, check her photo thread). Ghostie and Norm both took matters into their own hands, or throats, and finished swallowing without protest.

I have to say, I think it was more traumatic to me than to them. And now that it's worked, I'm much more confident. Thank you all who gave me great encouragement and feedback, and be ready: I don't know if I won't be pestering you all again with more PM questions!!!!!!

I'm so glad this board is full of kind, patient, non-judgemental people. Not that I see myself as the "assist feed queen" now, but it sure isn't rocket science, and I see on other forums how people with no experience doing something get flamed for trying and posting for help. I know without you all, I wouldn't have the resources to have helped these little guys, and I know we're not out of the woods yet, but thank you all for being who you are.

Have a great night, everyone! I know I'm on cloud nine with the way tonight went.

[jitami]

Thanks for the recap Stephi. Sorry to hear about caramel. Sounds like the remaining 5 are in great hands, though! Nice job!!!

[mtolypetsupply]

Thanks! we did another assist feed today. The ghost and the normal did fine. And are snuggled down in their substrate. I was cautioned against doing it too soon, possible regurge, but we held them up to the light, and the poor things, you can really and truly see through them both. Especially the ghost, but even Norm. They were empty, so we figured we'd go for it.

It's pretty weird, as soon as there's food in their mouths, they work it down on their own. But it doesn't dawn on them to take it upon themselves to get the food in their mouths. Then again, some of them have to be shown the water bowl daily, or I think they'd turn to dust. Silly snakes, I hope they grow out of this!

Shannon's garters are so much better than these silly corns. Smart little piggies eat on their own, drink on their own, and are just *gorgeous*!!!!!!

[Scaley.Jade]

only ever force fed corn snakes but to no detrimental effect it is much nicer assisting though i have a 6 month old corn who has been force fed for 4 months and we are now assisting she will occasionally take food on her own if we leave it in with her.

[drache]

just got to this thread
congrats on your success
sorry you lost Caramel

btw
those plastic stays they put into the collars of men's shirts make fantastic little snake mouth openers - and are easily cleaned

[infernalis]

So, just as a general rule here. How long would or could one let a young garter go with out food. I don’t yet have any (but hopefully this springJ) at this point.

Now to wait out a neo garter … hum could be rough on my nerves.







I’m here to learn before I jump in. What have I learned;

• feed on salmon, tilapia, and pinks
• Silver Sulfadiazine is your friend
• I can keep same sex species together
• brumation down to 50 degrees for three months
• Lighting ???? haven’t learned that yet. I guess it will be the same as the rest of my room where I don’t use any because there ample natural lighting.
• temperature ?? again under tank pad and maintain the room temp at 89 degrees should be good. Monitor snake individual temp with Rayteck adjust accordingly.
• substrate any thing other than cedar or pine (which I don’t use anyway) stay with the aspen and wood pellets.

Anything anyone else would suggest but be appreciated

Michael

I’m here to learn before I jump in.

Very respectable to hear that statement!

For your feeding question, I have seen some neonate garters perish within a month of not feeding, and have seen several pull out of it and do fine later. Much depends on how much weight the snake has lost, when they get to the stage of "skin and bones" (emaciated) it is much more difficult to recover from.

Michael, Here is a link to a statement I just made to Stephanie regarding brumation.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gart...html#post93340

The diet can also include night crawlers, (lots of protein, and no fat in Night Crawlers.)

I keep my reptile room at a steady 80 degrees, the GARTERS have (for the most part) largely ignored auxiliary heat. (many mixed opinions on that)

For substrate, some folks like "carefresh" (I find it rather expensive with so many tanks) "Repti bark" and "Eco Earth" work well if kept humid.

Live guppies in the water bowl will often stimulate feeding in stubborn snakes, Rosie reds and Goldfish are a big no no due to thiaminaise that blocks thiamin absorption in the snakes system.

I'm sure I may have missed something