Garter vs. Corn (round 2 ;)

[drache]

I know I didn't do more than help take care of critters when I was a kid
that's why I never got more than a hamster, who eventually escaped
we had big critters though and as soon as I was old enough to lug a bucket, I was given the opportunity to earn money during vacations to take over the horse care - an opportunity earned by sticking to the commitment
I had to have been around ten by that time

in the case of Mikhaila - I'd never get her anything I'm not willing to take care of, and she really has never taken care of anything beyond a few enthusiastic attempts that petered out pretty soon
now she's committed to cat litter duty though and doing a decent job
if she keeps it up, she can get her first pet she'll be completely responsible for herself
so far a lion-headed bunny is at the top of the wish list

[Lori P]

Oh, gosh, those lion heads are so stinkin' cute!!!!!! They kill me. Rhea, Rhea, can I have a lion head too??? I promise to feed and clean and take care of it..... but it has to live at your house 'cause my doggies will eat bunnies...

[Aundrea]

OMG I want a Lion Head Bunny BAD!!!!!!! They are just soooooo CUTE!!!!! My Reagle Beagle would chase it and scare it.. UGH I just LOVE their little faces covered in all that fur LOL When you get the Lion Head POST PICS LOL

[sschind]

I have raised hundreds of baby corn snakes and almost as many baby variable king snakes (Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri) and in my opinion the variables win hands down. In my experience they are much more calm as babies. A little more laid back as adults and they don't get quite as long (but they make up for it by being a bit thicker) Once they are feeding, which is the biggest problem with them, they have every bit as good of a feeding response as a corn.

My personal favorites are the Mt. Kings (Lampropeltis pyromelena, and Lampropeltis zonata) but I would not recommend them for a first snake for children so young. My baby pyros are awesome and there are few prettier snakes IMO and although I personally find them just as easy as corns they can have some feeding issues that can be a bit disconcerting at first (like ball pythons they sometimes have a tendency to go off feed in winter months, and they are a bit more skittish than the variables.

I vote for a Mexican Mountain Kingsnake. Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri

[drache]

I'm curious as to what snake the person who voted "other" has in mind

[GartersRock]

To all those how started at about ten years of age,
are you sure you had no parental guidence?

Maybe it was hard to get permissions...
Maybe family holidays were planed with hidden meanings...
Maybe there were a lot of friendly questions about you critters...

There are a lot of ways hidden guidance can be performed.

Well this is certainly true for a lot I am sure. But I can tell you I fought tooth and nail the whole way, no friendly questions. BUT. For them to finally give in and put up with my animals there was support in that. Even if I did have to constantly fight it. In the end, it was "allowed".

[GartersRock]

You are only 14 Reed??

[tyflier]

...I vote for a Mexican Mountain Kingsnake. Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri ...

A Mexican Mt. King is a Lampropeltis mexicana mexicana.

And I would not recommend any Mt. king species(mexicana, pyromelana, zonata) nor would I recommend ANY of the mexicana complex(thayeri, greeri, mexicana) or even and alterna as a first snake. They are quite docile and generally quite small. This much is true. But they can also be a right pain in the hind quarters as far as being picky and going off feed in the winter. They also tend to be less hardy and not quite as forgiving of beginner mistakes as cornsnakes are. Small errors in humidity and temperature regulation *could* be very detrimental, especially to greeri and thayeri.

Alterna seem better suited to beginners, given the extremely harsh and variable climates they natively habituate...but they can be picky S.O.B.s and go off feed for no apparent reason even under good conditions.

All in all...I agree that the mexicana complex(including alterna, even though they have been elevated) and the Mt. kingsnakes are among the most beautiful naturally occuring snakes available. I just don't agree with them as a beginner snake, unless the beginner has close access to someone with experience they can rely on for help and insight...

[prattypus]

See, all these points get the gears turning. All I knew when I was younger was garters. Caught 'em, read about 'em, and kept 'em. But when I was ready to get back into it, I didn't even think about another snake for me. My defualt was to hit up garters once again. Maybe it's time to branch out of the familiar and see what else is worth my attention and time.

[sschind]

A Mexican Mt. King is a Lampropeltis mexicana mexicana.

And I would not recommend any Mt. king species(mexicana, pyromelana, zonata) nor would I recommend ANY of the mexicana complex(thayeri, greeri, mexicana) or even and alterna as a first snake. They are quite docile and generally quite small. This much is true. But they can also be a right pain in the hind quarters as far as being picky and going off feed in the winter. They also tend to be less hardy and not quite as forgiving of beginner mistakes as cornsnakes are. Small errors in humidity and temperature regulation *could* be very detrimental, especially to greeri and thayeri.

Alterna seem better suited to beginners, given the extremely harsh and variable climates they natively habituate...but they can be picky S.O.B.s and go off feed for no apparent reason even under good conditions.

All in all...I agree that the mexicana complex(including alterna, even though they have been elevated) and the Mt. kingsnakes are among the most beautiful naturally occuring snakes available. I just don't agree with them as a beginner snake, unless the beginner has close access to someone with experience they can rely on for help and insight...

A quick google search for Mexican Mountain Kingsnake actually turns up no results. I found several hits for the Mexican kingsnake being listed as Lampropeltis mexicana mexicana but I have also found several hits for L.m.m listed as the San Luis Potosi kingsnake and I have never heard the SLP kingsnake referred to as a "Mexican Mountain Kingsnake" Perhaps both are accepted common names for this snake. It would appear that the more commonly accepted common names for the Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri would be either the variable kingsnake or Thayer's kingsnake but I found no listings that would indicate that Mexican Mountain Kingsnake is or is not an acceptable common name for L.m.t. I have seen it listed as such in a couple of places and I seen no evidence that it is an incorrect usage of a common name. However, I am not an expert in the field of taxonomy or the usage of common names so if you say that the Mexican Mountain Kingsnake is in fact L.m.m rather than L.m.t then I will defer.

Regardless, My experiences obviously differ from yours. I have sold hundreds of kingsnakes and corn snakes and I have not had a single report of either of the kingsnake species being any more difficult than the corns. As I said, I would not recommend the pyromelena for reasons I have indicated but I have not had any of same experiences experiences with the variables that would change my opinion. It has been my experience that once the baby L.m.t are established feeders they are every bit as reliable as the corns. You obviously have experience with this group of snakes, quite possibly much more experience than I, but that doesn't change the fact that my experiences indicate to me that a Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri would in fact make an excellent choice for a beginner snake. My thayeri's and pyro's are kept in a rack system right next to my corns and I have noticed no difference in their needs or their reactions to the identical care provided. All three eat, (with the exception of the occasional fast by the pyro's as indicated) and reproduce with equal vigor.

Would a corn snake make a better choice for the OP? Perhaps, but he was looking for options and opinions and in my opinion a variable kingsnake is a perfectly acceptable option. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.