Let's vent:What really ticks you off about the pet trade!

[GartersRock]

Seventh, since this is a garter snake forum I am assuming you have an interest in garter snakes. Well, another news flash, there are not that many of us. Most people do not have the patience to deal with a garter snake. Most are rather flighty, they have a tendency to musk, and babies can be a real pain in the...to feed. Why buy something like that when there are so many other choices out there. Besides if they wanted a garter snake chances are they could catch their own.

Cool thread!!
I agree with this in general but I disagree with a few of the statements...
This is how the general public views garters, yeah. But I had to say that:

1. Most of my garters are not flighty and many where even wild caught adults. Certainly no more flighty then your average king, corn or milk!

2. NONE of my garters musk. I have dozens...

3. Baby kings, corns, milks and balls can be even more of a pain in the **** to feed. If not sometimes moreso then garters...

4. Try finding the right garter, at the right time, right when you want it.
And then try and find the species you want that isn't local.
And then try finding some morphs. Honestly. You can find kings, corns and milks in the wild too! Most people who are looking for a pet aren't going to know where to look when they want one.
And if you want a puget, flame or whatever well... Good luck!

But yeah. That would be how the general public would see it. So I completely understand where you are coming from. But you failed to mention that these are just "myths".

Anyways! Back on topic!

[sschind]

Cool thread!!
I agree with this in general but I disagree with a few of the statements...
This is how the general public views garters, yeah. But I had to say that:

1. Most of my garters are not flighty and many where even wild caught adults. Certainly no more flighty then your average king, corn or milk!

2. NONE of my garters musk. I have dozens...

3. Baby kings, corns, milks and balls can be even more of a pain in the **** to feed. If not sometimes moreso then garters...

4. Try finding the right garter, at the right time, right when you want it.
And then try and find the species you want that isn't local.
And then try finding some morphs. Honestly. You can find kings, corns and milks in the wild too! Most people who are looking for a pet aren't going to know where to look when they want one.
And if you want a puget, flame or whatever well... Good luck!

But yeah. That would be how the general public would see it. So I completely understand where you are coming from. But you failed to mention that these are just "myths".

Anyways! Back on topic!

It seems as though this thread has strayed a bit.

Amanda: you must be far more lucky with garters than I am. My puget sound babies (well more like young juveniles now) are all over the place and they both musk like crazy. My two baby melanistic easterns, same thing, as well as my yearling red sided male. My adult eastern Blacknecks are very mellow and the female has been from day one. The male was always a bit flighty but even as tiny babies they were not bad and they did not musk. My T.e.elegans are adults and while not as mellow as the female E. blackneck they are handleable without a great deal of trouble. It seems that as they age they mellow out. At least I hope so. As far as feeding, yes, they are easy to feed. If you want to deal with guppies or worms or something of that nature. Yes they may switch to mice but even if they switch readily it takes a quite a while for them to get big enough to take a pinky. Yes there are pinky parts but thats another messy step.

The problem with all of this as it relates to this thread is the pet industry. Most people who buy snakes as pets don't want squimy, squirty, psycho babies that require special steps to feed, and most pet stores do not want to or can't afford to buy babies and do all the work and take all the time to get them to a point where they are acceptable to most people. Hence, garters are considered second or third class citizens of the pet snake world. At least here in the US. What is the saying "familiarity breeds contempt" Attitudes may differ in Other countries but I am not in another country so I have to go by what I experience.


Bill: I think we agree more than we disagree. I will make one point though about the panther chameleons and my experience with them and keep in mind this experience is probably almost 2 years old. I know one breeder (yes just one breeder) who sells unsexed 2 month old panthers at local swaps for $150.00 to $175.00 She said if I wanted to buy 3 or more she would let me have them for $125.00. That would mean I would have to ask about $250.00. She sells sexable females for starting at $200 and males for $00.00 to $500.00 depending on things. Why would anyone buy a possible female from me for $250.00 when they could wait a few more months and get a male for only $50.00 more? My point is she thought she was doing me a great service offering them to me for $125.00. If she offered me sexed males then yeah, I could compete but not knowing what I would be getting made it not worth the chance. I know this does not take into consideration the WC issue but it does address the price issue. Then consider that my competitors are buying WC adults and selling them for $250.00-$300.00 and try to figure out how I am supposed to compete and still offer you what you consider a fair price for yours.

I'll weigh in on the Planet Earth thing simply by saying this (and others have said it as well) You are not trying to save the earth. You are trying to save the earth as it relates to your survival. While there is nothing wrong with that, it might behoove you to make the distinction. It doesn't make you sound like such a wacko.

By the way. the show sucked as it usually does for me. Its too early in the year and non of my babies are ready to go yet. Even the oldest ones have at most 4 meals in them. It doesn't pay for me to take my leopard geckos because anything I have pales in comparison to the ones Jeremy Letkey has and his prices are pretty good. I breed them for sale in the store mostly. I did pick up four decent sized, very orange dragons for a good price, a couple of CBB pictus geckos and I traded a few old used tanks for a couple of couple of dart frogs.