Whats cooking?

[Eddie]

Thanks guys!! I'm still waiting on a couple to pop. I'm hoping for big things lol!!

[Manitou]

Easterns are harder to breed for some reason!

Easterns are not for the faint of heart!! LOL

Easterns will always be my favorite even if it means a little extra challenge!

I think easterns, at least the northern ones(flames, mels) really need a very long brumation to have high odds of reproductive success...

I'm thinking the challenge/difficulty is not just long brumation. For the record I've never bred any kind of Garters, but I got a brain in my head and am an astute observer of what goes on in the outdoors here in the Catskill Mountains. I'm thinking that to mimic the natural temperature fluctuation would be the best bet.

I'm thinking of acquiring a pair or two or a trio or two at some point this summer and housing them outside on an outdoor deck safe from predators. Exposure to some direct sunlight but mostly shade just like I have been observing them in the wild for the last 40+ years. Temperature at sunrise = cold then a gradual increase to late afternoon = hot then a gradual decrease to sunrise again = cold again. In the Fall when temperatures begin to near the freezing point then they would be brought indoors and go into the fridge.

Temperatures in captivity seem too constant. Too constant on an hourly basis, weekly basis, and monthly basis. Brumation in captivity takes place in refrigerators does it? But what we see outside, for example, if Garters brumate from about the Fall equinox to about the Spring equinox = for example:

average about 60 degrees Sept-Oct
average about 50 degrees Oct-Nov
average about 40 degrees Nov-Dec
average about 40 degrees Dec-Jan
(of course <0 degrees above ground, but >32 degrees in the brumation dens)
average about 50 degrees Jan-Feb
average about 60 degrees Feb-Mar

Is brumation in the fridge done like this?

Then even after the Garters are out and about eating, sleeping, drinking, and fornicating the temperatures are STILL fluctuating wildly. The temperature here is almost never the same for more than a few hours at a time. The difference between sunrise and late afternoon here can literally be up to a 50 degree difference in a 24 hour period. Yes mid-Summer days can be 40F at sunrise here and then 12hrs later peak at 90F during late afternoon - outside where the Garters are. And their heart rate, their metabolism, closely correlated with the temperature. We have seen this here so I am sure they are seeing it in latitudes north of here &/or at altitudes higher than here. They are nearly paralyzed with cold in the morning and then are super active later in the afternoon.

But we don't see this degree of fluctuation in captivity on a daily basis or an annual basis.

Okay, now you experienced breeders tear up this newbie - bring it.

[Eddie]

I would say we tend to over think it as hobbyists. I have been breeding garters for many years and brumation seams to play a very limited roll in captive born and raised animals. I have had big litters, small liters, still born litters and beans at different times and under similar and different circumstances. I now prefer to just cool the animals by removing light and heat sources for a month or so. And then i just turn the lights and heat back on and introduce the males and females a day or 2 later. I always seam to be overwhelmed with babies so I must be doing something right! LOL

[Eddie]

7th litter born! 10 healthy babies. 2 albinos, 4 melanistics and 4 66% poss het snow's. The babies and mother are doing fine. These babies are all also poss het silver. No snows were born this year but this same male and female produced snows last year.

[guidofatherof5]

7th litter born! 10 healthy babies. 2 albinos, 4 melanistics and 4 66% poss het snow's. The babies and mother are doing fine. These babies are all also poss het silver. No snows were born this year but this same male and female produced snows last year.

Awesome. Photos when you have time, dad.

[Jeff B]

I would say we tend to over think it as hobbyists. I have been breeding garters for many years and brumation seams to play a very limited roll in captive born and raised animals. I have had big litters, small liters, still born litters and beans at different times and under similar and different circumstances. I now prefer to just cool the animals by removing light and heat sources for a month or so. And then i just turn the lights and heat back on and introduce the males and females a day or 2 later. I always seam to be overwhelmed with babies so I must be doing something right! LOL

ditto..what he said

[Jeff B]

7th litter born! 10 healthy babies. 2 albinos, 4 melanistics and 4 66% poss het snow's. The babies and mother are doing fine. These babies are all also poss het silver. No snows were born this year but this same male and female produced snows last year.

Nice little litter, those mels are high demand. Congrats Ed

[Tommytradix]

Wow ed your having a excellent season. Congrats!

[Eddie]

Thanks guys!!

[Albert Clark]

Congrats Ed! I am still waiting on production from my 3 big projects. West coast infernalis, t.s. pickeringii, and t.c. ocelatus. I must say they all are looking promising. I did put the t. marcianus group in to brumation, except for the albino pastel girl who I am bent on putting more size on. Maybe next season for her. My male pickeringii is permanently afflicted with the head tilt (opisthotonos) due to the thiamine deficiency he suffered but does seem to have adjusted well.