Feeder Fish

[Albert Clark]

Bearded dragon. org lists pinky mice moisture percentage at 84%

[guidofatherof5]

Bearded dragon. org lists pinky mice moisture percentage at 84%

Thanks

[Albert Clark]

Ok. Dr foster/smith show pinky moisture percentage at 80%, Rodentpro nutritive analysis doesn't list moisture percentage at all. The high I found tonight is the 84% reported by beaded dragon.org Melissa Kaplan also doesn't list moisture percentage of pink mice. Your resource is definitely the most credible however I will continue to pursue the links I know are out there. Thanks.

[Albert Clark]

Steve , this is what I copied and pasted from bearded dragon co.
Neonatal mice are also ~84% moisture, ~13% protein and ~3-4% crude fat(tested amount is 3.4% so less than the young crickets and almost half adult crickets) Also naturally these mice have a 1:1.1 Ca:Ph ratio so are great to be dusted lightly for the perfect ratio of 1.43:1
Pinkies have vitamin A as well which contains beta-Carotene. The amount is less than the dose limit which is 10,000IU/kg? There are reports of 90% moisture in pink mice in https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/index.php analysing labs.

[guidofatherof5]

Thanks again, lots of material out there.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks again, lots of material out there.

Right, and the main thing once again is, pinky mice are very low in Ca+ ( Calcium) but high in containing mostly moisture.

[SourceAll]

Yeah I liked the idea that garters didn't need mice but now that I know they are good for them I can't not feed them any...
Very cool, I love aquariums so I will definitely try my hand at breeding a few feeders myself I'm just tossing out my staple idea.

I just watched all these videos on youtube made by a guy who breeds tilapia in his garage in 250 gallon plastic tanks. He does this for food for his family and he produces a good amount of fish pretty quickly and those are large fish for human consumption. I imagine that if you were growing them snake size you could definitely have enough fish on hand at any given moment without much effort.

Before I saw that I was going to attempt an experiment to breed platys free of parasites. I figured that if you put the mother in a holding tank when shes about to give birth and just remove her as soon as she does while putting the babies in a clean tank, you would have a good chance of doing so. You could even go one more generation just to be extra safe.

Now you just keep the parents as pets or something then start all breeding with the offspring once they grow. This of course is an educated guess as I'm only accounting for parasites that are in the gastrointestinal track and I'm not a biologist

Thanks for the suggestions, those are both amazing animals. Definitely leaning towards radix since calm with a great personality sounds pretty ideal but damn Concinnus is gorgeous and bold is also important to me. Its tough so many to chose from lol.

I would avoid live fish altogether as everyone before me has said. I also think pinkies are not a complete diet due to low to no calcium. I feed mainly rodents with the occasional Silversides/nightcrawlers and give a 50/50 calcium plus multivitamin mix 2-3 times a month.
I'm in the process of experimenting with breeding gambusia and treating them for parasites to see if it can be done and will be feeding 3 garters them twice a week along with pinks.

As for a recommendation for a garter. Imo radix have the calmest demeanor and best personality. Concinnus are another sure bet cause they do alot of basking and barely use hides that are provided so you will see them alot more than other garters.

[SourceAll]

Thanks and yeah he seemed to know what he was talking about and almost all snake keepers these days seem to feed frozen.

That seems to be the key from what I've read and heard, variety.

Also, I was reading the recent posts and figured I'd go dig up one of the care sheets I read to see if I remembered it wrong:

“The main advantage of using mice is that they are more nutritious than fish or worms: they do not require supplementation and there is no risk of a thiamin deficiency. Garter snakes feeding on mice don’t need to be fed as often and they grow faster, too. Another significant advantage is that garter snake feces is a lot less watery and smelly!
There are, in fact, only two disadvantages to using mice, and neither of them have anything to do with their nutritive value. Some keepers may not be comfortable feeding mice to their snakes — in fact, they may have chosen garter snakes so that they wouldn’t have to feed mice to them.” <- I enjoyed that last part lol

It was on Garter Snake Care Guide - Gartersnake.info

Is this not a good source of information? I have no idea obviously.

They are considered parasite diminished bc you are raising them to thrive in pristine conditions by having no overcrowding, proper filtration, and proper acid base balances. Parasites certainly can be in rodents. That is why we as keepers feed frozen thawed. There is always that chance that at any given time by continuing to feed live, there is more of a risk for a reptile to have a outbreak of high parasitic loads. This is true but can be reduced by feeding frozen thawed, keeping your husbandry numbers dialed in correctly, and very importantly to pay attention to cleanliness of the terrarium. That is crucial for garters who have high metabolisms and have high outputs of waste products. Keeping water bowls clean and disinfected on a regular basis will all help to keep parasitic loads to a minimum. Pink mice and rats are not completely a perfect staple bc they are mostly (90%) moisture. Lacking calcium mainly but they do have whole organs however small. Pink rats being a larger animal has a greater proportion but still mostly moisture. You can also steer clear of rodents if that is your choice but the garters will need complete nutrition from a varied safe diet which may include reptile vitamin/ mineral supplementation.

[SourceAll]

Anybody else with specific garter recommends and why? Would truly appreciate any and all opinions...

[guidofatherof5]

Female T. radix - Plains garter. Great snakes with great personalities. Eat about everything.