New Black and White Eastern Garter Morph Found!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff B]

Jeff, by any chance, what if this black and white is a hybrid? Would you know before breeding him or do you have to wait to see what he produces?

Chance of hybrid=0

[Albert Clark]

What criteria do you use in determining that. I don't doubt you but it is perplexing. Does it come down to color, pattern or a combination you know. How does anyone determine a hybrid outside of a known breeding history ? But for w/c , how?

[Eddie]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

[AntTheDestroyer]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

I don't get it. What does this have to do with common sense?

[Albert Clark]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

With all due respect sir, I am looking for a anatomical , phenotypical differentiation in a specimen that was w/c as it relates to hybridization. It absolutely has nothing to do with common sense. If you can't contribute anything helpful just continue to read!

[guidofatherof5]

Its not a hybrid. Its common sense and nothing else

With all due respect sir, I am looking for a anatomical , phenotypical differentiation in a specimen that was w/c as it relates to hybridization. It absolutely has nothing to do with common sense. If you can't contribute anything helpful just continue to read!

Why the confrontation reply Albert? Eddie simply stated it was a matter of common sense as that relates to his perspective on the information given. I understood his word usage. He was contributing and certainly didn't make his statement to offend anyone. He too is a valued member of this page and telling him to "just continue to read" is inappropriate.
I'm not trying to start something here but why didn't you simply ask him to explain what he meant?

[Albert Clark]

First of all, how can you justify his comment about common sense when that certainly was directed to me and can easily be construed as offensive. What is inappropriate is his reference to "common sense" being the only way to qualify the differentiating factors in hybridization and how it relates to w/c individuals. If you feel that Eddies comment was a reasonable contribution to a educated question directed to clarify a perplexing issue I have to disagree. Confrontational? No. Just challenging Eddies response that to me, is not only inappropriate but its inadequate as it doesn't EXPLAIN any part of the original question. None of us know it all Steve that is why we ask questions. "Just continue to read" was preceded by my comment and my interpretation of his ( Eddies) less than helpful , poor , explanation of the hybridization of w/c's. How can the differentiating factors and any signs and or physical attributes of hybrids just be "common sense"? Come on, and your validating what he said?

[BLUESIRTALIS]

It reminds me of the cyclone garter a few years back! I think it was white and purple though.

[guidofatherof5]

First of all, how can you justify his comment about common sense when that certainly was directed to me and can easily be construed as offensive. What is inappropriate is his reference to "common sense" being the only way to qualify the differentiating factors in hybridization and how it relates to w/c individuals. If you feel that Eddies comment was a reasonable contribution to a educated question directed to clarify a perplexing issue I have to disagree. Confrontational? No. Just challenging Eddies response that to me, is not only inappropriate but its inadequate as it doesn't EXPLAIN any part of the original question. None of us know it all Steve that is why we ask questions. "Just continue to read" was preceded by my comment and my interpretation of his ( Eddies) less than helpful , poor , explanation of the hybridization of w/c's. How can the differentiating factors and any signs and or physical attributes of hybrids just be "common sense"? Come on, and your validating what he said?

First, I want to apologize to Eddie for speaking on his behalf and to Jeff for derailing his thread. Maybe I should have stayed out of it but I didn't.
Knowing the State(PA) this snake originated from is an important piece of evidence to the common sense response. PA has two native garter snakes T. s. sirtalis (Eastern garter snake) and Thamnophis brachystoma (Short-Headed Garter Snake) the latter being in very small isolated populations. The fact that the State is a hot bed for Eastern morphs over the years and that similar morphs like the "Granite" have been found there is important also. This by itself says a lot about the unlikelihood that the snake in question could a hybrid. There have been many hybrids posted to this page over the years and they all have one thing in common. They look like plain and simply a wash of the two snakes that produced them. Then I look at the experience and knowledge of the people responding to help put the evidence together.
With all of this I understand the common sense response and would have come to the same conclusion. I mean no offense in my response.

[Albert Clark]

First, I want to apologize to Eddie for speaking on his behalf and to Jeff for derailing his thread. Maybe I should have stayed out of it but I didn't.
Knowing the State(PA) this snake originated from is an important piece of evidence to the common sense response. PA has two native garter snakes T. s. sirtalis (Eastern garter snake) and Thamnophis brachystoma (Short-Headed Garter Snake) the latter being in very small isolated populations. The fact that the State is a hot bed for Eastern morphs over the years and that similar morphs like the "Granite" have been found there is important also. This by itself says a lot about the unlikelihood that the snake in question could a hybrid. There have been many hybrids posted to this page over the years and they all have one thing in common. They look like plain and simply a wash of the two snakes that produced them. Then I look at the experience and knowledge of the people responding to help put the evidence together.
With all of this I understand the common sense response and would have come to the same conclusion. I mean no offense in my response.

So, you still validate the "common sense" comment knowing full well a lot of people, including myself is and was not privy to the facts you just laid out! There are a lot of people who don't even know what a hybrid is and some cant even spell the word. Taking that into consideration I don't know how Eddie and you can generalize and refer to the intelligent question of recognizing hybrids in w/c's as being "common sense". Anyway, we all see things differently and I am done with this thread. Thanks for the explanation, those facts are relatively new to me and I'm sure other members and visitors to the page about how state location plays a role in hybridization? I think the original question can be answered when I "continue my reading" and research. No pun intended.