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  1. #291
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Quote Originally Posted by NancyG View Post
    the Checkered is a different subspecies of snake...
    No, it isn't. One is not a subspecies of the other. They are completely different species. One is Thamnophis ordinoides which has no subspecies, the other is Thamnophis marcianus.

    Quote Originally Posted by NancyG View Post
    they are closely related enough that they can breed.
    Actually they aren't "close enough". Northwesterns have diverged enough from most other garter species, and from other species with which they share their range, that reproductive isolation has occurred. They not only wouldn't (and don't) breed with other species in their range, it's impossible for them to do so due to drastic physical differences in their reproductive organs. It's like trying to "cram a square peg in a round hole". Their sex attractant hormones are different too. They simply don't attract other species and they aren't attracted to other species. It's highly unlikely they would or could crossbreed with anything other than perhaps their closest living relatives; Butler's and Short-headed but that hasn't been tested that I know of. Even though they are one of the smallest species, they are actually more closely related to the endangered giant garter snake than they are to T. sirtalis or T. marcianus and they still can't breed with a giant garter.

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorPrincess View Post
    For all the doubters and haters I first encountered
    There was only concern that the rare to opportunity finally preserve the albino gene for this species in captive lines would slip away once again. The chance has came and went several times in the past few years and we either don't hear from the people again, or their lack of experience results in the snake dying before it even gets old enough to breed or else they just don't know how to breed them or don't plan to. Baby northwesterns can be difficult to raise successfully even for me and I have years of experience with the species and garters in general. You lucked out big time.

    Even now that the snake is obviously doing fine, keeping a snake alive and healthy, and successfully breeding to preserve the morph is a whole different ballgame and not exactly a beginners undertaking. Case in point, the idea of breeding her to an albino checkered. Not only would that not preserve the gene, it would create worthless hybrids and wouldn't even preserve the species let alone the morph. That is, if they could even breed with a checkered, which they can't. Also, the allele mutation that causes albinism in one species is often not the same mutation that causes it in another. Recessive morphs must carry two copies of the same allele mutation (or at least two versions of a nonfunctional allele) on the same locus in order to come out albino. In other words, breeding an albino northwestern to an albino checkered would likely not produce albinos even of you could cross the two. Same thing happens when you try to breed a T+ albino radix to a T- albino radix. You don't get albinos, you get double hets because the two forms of albinism don't reside on the same locus.


    Here's my advice: Breed her to her own kind soon and it doesn't much matter what color the male is or where you get him as long as he is also a northwestern. The point is that she has offspring before something happens and she is lost or dies. All her offspring will be het for albino. That is, on the locus that carries the mutation, the babies will receive the mutated allele from mom, and a normal allele from dad if he is normal. It only takes one normal allele for the snake to be normal but in order to be albino the snake has to receive the mutated version of the allele from BOTH parents.

    If she was bred to a male and had normal babies there's still the long and often difficult road ahead in raising her offspring to adulthood. Now, remember they will all carry one copy of the mutated allele. So, if you raised up a male and bred it back to mom, any eggs that recieve the mutated copy from the male AND mom, will come out albino. You could also breed two of these het siblings together and there would be a 50/50 chance of any one of the resulting offspring to coming out albino.

    If this is something that you intend to do, she should have went into brumation a month ago and in the spring when a male is available, bring her out and put several males in with her and hopefully she would breed with one of them and produce offspring that are het for albino.

    You did well. She's still alive and healthy and old enough to breed. But that's just one of many hurdles to overcome. She still has to survive a brumation (again, not a thing for beginners) and still has to successfully breed and produce healthy offspring. If that were done, losing her wouldn't be losing the morph forever since her offspring would carry the mutation for the next generation. As it stands now, if she died in brumation or was otherwise lost before having offspring, the morph dies with her until someone can find another wild albino. And that doesn't happen very often.

  2. #292
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    How about a few updated photos of this wonderful snake.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  3. #293
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Personally I'd like to see her bred to an erythristic (red) male so her offspring have a chance of carrying both traits and someday be used to create an erythristic albino line. Imagine a snake that's albino like her, but very red. But at this point, ANY offspring from her would at least ensure the line/morph isn't lost if something happens to her. While the albino morph in this species isn't particularly flashy or pretty, it has the potential to spawn one of a kind and amazing combo morphs depending on what other colors are combined with the amelanism and we know that there are a lot of colors to choose from. Just think what she would have looked like if she was albino and inherited a bright orange or red stripe instead of yellow? the combo possibilities are endless but in order to do it, her albino mutation must be passed on and it could take many years and generations but some amazing snakes could be produced someday using this mutation. But that will never happen if she doesn't have babies. It also won't happen unless an experienced and knowledgeable garter breeder dedicated to producing such a line, doesn't get ahold of at least one of her offspring and remain dedicated to the project no matter how long it takes to actually produce another albino.

  4. #294
    "First shed In Progress" WarriorPrincess's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Had trouble getting her to hold still but I'll try again tomorrowIMG_2262.jpg

  5. #295
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Still looking good.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  6. #296
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BLUESIRTALIS's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    She is an awesome snake and i would love to have offspring from her! You have done a fantastic job with her so now i hope she will produce some healthy offspring for you! Keep us posted on her and thanks for taking such great care of such a rare and beautiful animal! Keep me in mind if you get too many offspring and wish to part with some!
    Bluesirtalis

  7. #297
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUESIRTALIS View Post
    She is an awesome snake and i would love to have offspring from her! You have done a fantastic job with her so now i hope she will produce some healthy offspring for you! Keep us posted on her and thanks for taking such great care of such a rare and beautiful animal! Keep me in mind if you get too many offspring and wish to part with some!

    Nicely said and I agree.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  8. #298
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BLUESIRTALIS's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    I just find it amazing that someone that was scared of snakes took the time to stop and recognized
    that this was a rare and beautiful snake. The fact that she took it in to care for it and keep it alive and now is willing to tempt and breed her to preserve her genes for the hobby is just so awesome! Thanks for what you've done because that snake had a very slim chance of making it in the wild!
    Bluesirtalis

  9. #299
    "First shed In Progress" WarriorPrincess's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Casper just freckin bit me!!! In 2 years she's never done that before!!!! I washed it with hot soapy water and put alcohol on the bite. Is there anything I should worry about??????? HELP!!IMG_2429[1].jpgIMG_2430[1].jpg

  10. #300
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: I found an Albino Garden Snake

    Nothing to worry about.
    Nice work Casper.
    Welcome to the club.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

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