piebald garter?

[ConcinusMan]

They are. Pretty decent looking.

[Eddie]

They really are great looking snakes! My female is an absolute beast. She never refuses a meal.

[chris-uk]

I'm going to breed my F1's again this year. I can't give up after 1 try. The babies this year showed no signs of being pied and were all still born. I hope to at least get healthy babies this year!

I wouldn't give up after one attempt either, but your pairing wasn't the only one that failed to produce any sign of a pied was it?

They really are great looking snakes! My female is an absolute beast. She never refuses a meal.

Cool looking Easterns, but assuming you don't get any pied in the litter next year, if you were to sell them I'm guessing you'd be selling them as normal Easterns and not perpetuating the belief that the pied parent had a heritable trait?

[Eddie]

I'm considered by most to be a stand up guy. I hope this answers what I think is a question.

[chris-uk]

I'm considered by most to be a stand up guy. I hope this answers what I think is a question.

Indeed.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

And if you get some live babies that look normal this year i would raise them up too! How do we know it's not like some of the other pied/calico morphs that are born normal and gain varying amounts of white as they grow? I know the chances are very slim, but it's possible! Nobody has produced live babies from the f1's yet! I still have high hopes that this pans out for the sake of the hobby and the breeders that invested so much money and time in this and for the record i don't think scott and jeff have give up either just didn't need so many males!

i'm going to breed my f1's again this year. I can't give up after 1 try. The babies this year showed no signs of being pied and were all still born. I hope to at least get healthy babies this year!

[annulataarethebest]

Dont know why anyone would give up if they already invested in the F1s... just keep the F2s breed them back to each other and back to the F1s. Honestly nobody should've expected piebald garters to be produced so soon.

[chris-uk]

Dont know why anyone would give up if they already invested in the F1s... just keep the F2s breed them back to each other and back to the F1s. Honestly nobody should've expected piebald garters to be produced so soon.

And if piebald is ever produced again it will be from a beautifully inbred line. Not for me thanks, I find pieds ugly.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

And that's how most morphs are reproduced! Once you line breed and reproduce these and get visuals then you can outcross, but unfortunately in order to reproduce some of these morphs they have to be line bred! I personally would love to work with some pieds! I mean don't get me wrong I love all the naturally produced color variations, but at the same time love to produce new stuff as well and I think some of the combo morphs produced with pieds would be awesome! Is the pied my favorite no, but I think for the sake of the hobby it would be awesome to reproduce them! As far as inbreeding goes look at the beautiful san frans if wasn't for inbreeding you probably wouldn't be able to have them! From what I've been told they are inbred more that marcianus was!

And if piebald is ever produced again it will be from a beautifully inbred line. Not for me thanks, I find pieds ugly.

[chris-uk]

And that's how most morphs are reproduced!

Yep.

Once you line breed and reproduce these and get visuals then you can outcross, but unfortunately in order to reproduce some of these morphs they have to be line bred!

Sure you can outcross, but that relies on breeders not wanting to cash in and produce as many visuals as possible while the price for the latest, greatest, newest morph stays high.

I personally would love to work with some pieds! I mean don't get me wrong I love all the naturally produced color variations, but at the same time love to produce new stuff as well and I think some of the combo morphs produced with pieds would be awesome! Is the pied my favorite no, but I think for the sake of the hobby it would be awesome to reproduce them!

Personally, I think pieds are pig ugly (but then I find snows hideous as well, melanistics are OK though) but beauty and the beholders eye and all that. I don't see how producing a pied garter benefits the hobby.

As far as inbreeding goes look at the beautiful san frans if wasn't for inbreeding you probably wouldn't be able to have them! From what I've been told they are inbred more that marcianus was!

Tetrataenia in Europe came from more than a single ancestor. Sure, there must be inbreeding as the history of many lines is muddy, but the population started from a reasonable sized breeding population rather than all of them being traced back to a single individual.