is this a red sided?

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

Not different types as such, but they really are highly variable.

i need to know for sure because i want to buy a female red sided so i can breed them

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

is there a difference of scales or anything between a red-sided and a valley garter??

[Stefan-A]

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It has the exact same pattern as my male parietalis. That's all I can really say about it.

[GarterGuy]

is there a difference of scales or anything between a red-sided and a valley garter??

No, the scale counts are the same for both of them, they're just subspecies of T.sirtalis.

[drache]

No, the scale counts are the same for both of them, they're just subspecies of T.sirtalis.

hang me, if I'm way off here
if they're just a sub-species anyway
with from what I see as a decent enough overlap in territory
aren't some of these distinctions purely academic?
sort of like in the case of Terry's snakes
I'm sure the snakes don't care
and after witnessing this long debate
I'm beginning to wonder whether it's a different subspecies at all
maybe it's more like a local variation

[ssssnakeluvr]

I don't think there is an overlap in ranges on these 2 subspecies...will have to look itup

[drache]

I don't think there is an overlap in ranges on these 2 subspecies...will have to look itup

it's kind of a long narrow strip . . .

[joeysgreen]

There is indeed an overlap of the ranges up in British Columbia near Cranbrook. I agree though that while some subspecies seem to be clearly defined, these two might as well be the same.

Ian

ps, I'm pretty sure I responded earlier in this thread regarding the red patches on the cheek, but I can't find it. Perhaps I'm delirious.

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

There is indeed an overlap of the ranges up in British Columbia near Cranbrook. I agree though that while some subspecies seem to be clearly defined, these two might as well be the same.

Ian

ps, I'm pretty sure I responded earlier in this thread regarding the red patches on the cheek, but I can't find it. Perhaps I'm delirious.

haha no theres another thread where i posted more pics

[Stefan-A]

From The Book:
Single series of red spots along lower margin of dorsolateral area; top of head black; black spotting on margins of ventrals reduced or absent ...... T. s. fitchi

The key to the next (and last) two subspecies, dorsalis and parietalis: Double series of red spots present, at least anteriorly; top of head grey, brown or black (if black, then single or double row of black spots present on ventral margins)