Sudden onset neurological problem

[hissies]

Neither have I! I haven't been around the garter scene for long, but the few articles I read on it months ago implied that it was python-specific. Vet did say it can affect all snakes.

However, when he was living at my friend's house, she got a Dumeril's boa that he was sharing close quarters with (she mentioned splitting a heat source between the two.) They weren't in the same cage and I don't imagine she would have had them both out at the same time, but I don't know if that matters. I know she got the boa from a reptile show. She also has a carpet python that she's had for over a year, and several of her friend's snakes have been in and out of her apartment.

[chris-uk]

This is an interesting development, I've read a little about IBD but not a lot because (like others) I was under the impression that it didn't affect garters.

Please keep us informed, because if IBD can affect garters it turns a whole lot of assumptions around. I wouldn't like to ask you to go to the expense of the test the vet mentioned, however it would really serve the garter community if you had the test done and it turns out positive. Would it be the first confirmed case of IBD in a garter?

[guidofatherof5]

Please keep us posted on this situation. Best of luck.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

It can affect other snakes, but it's very unlikely. It is a disease that is usually spread from snake to snake by mites and through the years i have known several boa and python breeders that lost almost their whole collection due to this disease, but none of their colubrids were ever infected.

[d_virginiana]

Hopefully it isn't IBD and the shot helps him. I don't keep boas, so I've never heard of that disease.

Best of luck, and keep us updated on his condition.

[chris-uk]

Identification, Characterization, and In Vitro Culture of Highly Divergent Arenaviruses from Boa Constrictors and Annulated Tree Boas: Candidate Etiological Agents for Snake Inclusion Body Disease

Useful article from Aug 2012 if anyone else is wanting to read more about IBD.

[guidofatherof5]

Great link Chris. Thanks.

[guidofatherof5]

Identification, Characterization, and In Vitro Culture of Highly Divergent Arenaviruses from Boa Constrictors and Annulated Tree Boas: Candidate Etiological Agents for Snake Inclusion Body Disease

Useful article from Aug 2012 if anyone else is wanting to read more about IBD.

Here's another article on this subject. Thanks Steve Schmidt for the link.

http://labs.vetmed.ufl.edu/files/201...JexoticPet.pdf

[guidofatherof5]

The evidence as presented lead me to thiaminase.
I don't think the forum is doing anything wrong when these situation are looked at objectively but with a lack of evidence to some other cause, raising the thiaminase flag simply alerts people to a possible cause for the problem.
I don't think thiaminase is used as a scapegoat but certainly is suspect when the evidence leans that direction.
Just my opinion.

Lora, please read this link.
All About Thiaminase - Gartersnake.info

I meant hissies please read this. Sorry.

[guidofatherof5]

No, the sudden rolling was describing the first seizure. d_virginiana's right, I did say in my first post that afterwards he's acted lethargic, slithering erratically, and seems unable to keep himself upright. He's had at least four more small episodes like this since, being in the enclosure without me touching or interacting with him at all, some of which I've witnessed more of. It's like he suddenly flails, then seizes up in a varying "crinkled" position, often with the tip of his tail tremoring while the rest of his body is still. Twice I've seen him flick his tongue out during one of these, holding it out for several seconds while he's seized. It seems like after the second and third times, his motor control's worsened. He tends to the left even when slithering slowly (a 'circling' behavior I've seen and known to be caused by neurological issues in mammals, for what it's worth- I know reptiles are different.)

We just got back from the vet. He told me that it is definitely a neuro issue, and after further examination and calling two specialists, told me that he thinks it's inclusion body disease. He told me that there is a test they can do to determine this for sure, but heavily implied that he didn't think it was worth doing. He said that parasites and vitamin deficiencies are other possibilities, though he seemed fairly well convinced that it is IBD. He told me he wanted to give me time to think about it and wasn't going to euthanize him today, but if this is what it is then there is no treatment. The vet also offered to refer me to a specialist a couple hours away if I was inclined to get a more in-depth opinion.

He did give my snake a thiamin shot, stating that it won't hurt anything and in case it might help. I plan on doing my own research on IBD- I've only read about it incidentally, as I've only ever seen it referenced in relation to python species. What do you think? Should I get a second opinion (from the specialist or my usual vet?) Is it worth having the test done? Should I just try and manage it for the next few days and if he continues to seize/fails to eat, have him PTS? I plan on giving it at least a couple days to see if the thiamin shot helped, but I won't let him suffer or starve to death.

See if you Vet. can give you some oral thiamin to continue treating the snake.