Incompetent vet

[chris-uk]

Im not sure if you could be more wrong.

I massaged the snake just fine and was very careful and caused no injury, the snake was healthy and moving before the exam, afterwards immobile and limp from her lower third body then died THAT night.She was not in immediate danger, she wasnt losing weight and we hadnt even tried mineral oil yet.

While i cannot 100% confirm exactly what happend, from the evidence i have and from my vast experience i know what happened here.Im not stupid, i know the vet didnt do it on purpose but she did make a mistake and she did kill my snake and i have a right to be frustrated about it especially as i have no way of recouping my losses here.

Have you spoken to the vet since the fateful visit? If you haven't how do you know that they wouldn't have been willing to help find the cause of death? And if they did indeed break the poor girl's spine, don't vets in Canada have liability insurance?
I appreciate your frustration, and I'd be angry speaking to a vet if they'd killed my tetra, but I would most certainly have spoken to the vet as soon as I discovered my dead snake.
If this is the only vet that you have access to for treating your snakes I'd consider it to be important to raise this death with them. Firstly from an educational standpoint, but also I would want to try to regain some trust in the vet. If on speaking to the vet I found them disinterested and unhelpful, then they wouldn't get any business from me again. Everyone makes mistakes, and should be given the opportunity to make amends for them.

[ConcinusMan]

I dont disagree, there are vets who specialize in reptiles, but only through experience there is no schooling for it.

There is schooling for it at many university zoology depts but it's not specifically required to become a vet. It's rather ironic that a zoologist is going to know more about reptile medicine than your local vet, yet we take our snakes to the latter since a zoologist isn't in the business of treating people's pets.

And if they did indeed break the poor girl's spine, don't vets in Canada have liability insurance?

And remember this is still speculation. I've seen plenty of broken backs and I've never seen it cause immediate death and I've seen plenty of them survive just fine and heal after having their backs and many ribs broken. And I'm talking obviously broken to the point of kinking. They didn't just suddenly drop dead. I just find it hard to believe that the vet used that much force, as to break the spine and even if he did, that alone shouldn't cause such rapid death. I think it's more likely that there was internal injury (pre-existing to some degree) made worse by the vet. Did the vet do x-rays on the area? I mean, did he confirm that the lump was indeed a blockage? If it was instead an infection, cyst, etc., then aggravating it could cause internal bleeding or release of toxins from the infection. Now that would cause rapid death. Going limp from that point down doesn't have to mean the snake was paralyzed or mean that it's back was broken. Like I said, a broken back alone doesn't usually cause rapid death and they can even go on to live with it.

Just trying to offer other plausible explanations because it's only natural to want to blame the vet or someone even if he only did what any vet would do. It's not fair to call them incompetent when you don't know the cause of death. You wouldn't call a cancer specialist incompetent just because they couldn't cure someone's cancer. I think it's important to know for sure if they did something incompetent before calling them that and all you really know for sure at this point is that the snake died after seeing the vet. Unless you immediately took it to another place for a necropsy to confirm the cause of death, I'm afraid there's nothing you can do. You could blame the vet here, but there's no real proof to confirm it.

[d_virginiana]

I would think that in the case of a broken spine, it'd be something you'd notice immediately, or possibly even hear. It just doesn't seem that the snake would have no noticeable behavior differences when it was handed back to you at the office (or put back in its container or whatever) and then only show those things once it got home...

This is another thing I've noticed about even some of the most competent general vets when it comes to reptiles... They will listen to the keeper unless the keeper is making no sense. When I brought my turtle in saying that it had an eye infection and I needed a topical opthalmic antibiotic, my vet listened to me rather than run a battery of tests without knowing how the stress would effect the animal, or what the results would be for an animal they weren't designed for. Luckily, I was right and Turtle is happy and healthy now. If I had been mistaken, and the eye problem was due to an injury, a fungus, or anything else really, then the antibiotics wouldn't have helped, and could have even caused more harm than good.

Telling the vet would be good, just so they know in the future, but unless the spine was actually broken it really just boils down to the fact that you asked someone who was not educated in reptiles to perform medical treatment on your reptile. It sucks that that is often the only option for reptile keepers, but it's the truth.

[scott5017]

I think it's important to know for sure if they did something incompetent before calling them that and all you really know for sure at this point is that the snake died after seeing the vet. Unless you immediately took it to another place for a necropsy to confirm the cause of death, I'm afraid there's nothing you can do. You could blame the vet here, but there's no real proof to confirm it.

I have been dealing with reptiles and specifically snakes for the better part of 20 years and i know what a spinal injury looks and feels like. Yes i understand the spine being broken is not always fatal except if you include crushed ribs and internal bleeding which is the most likely of causes.

Performing a necropsy would only cause me to lose more money and gain nothing that i didnt already know without recouping anything.

I also wonder,without knowing any of my husbandry / background history / competence / pictures or any first hand evidence you can be so sure that im wrong? Seems very arrogant to me.

I didnt come here for debate or argument only to share my frustrations and upset over losing such an animal with people who appreciate these wonderful creatures. Once the animal had died there was nothing that could be done.

[d_virginiana]

I also wonder,without knowing any of my husbandry / background history / competence / pictures or any first hand evidence you can be so sure that im wrong? Seems very arrogant to me.

Your husbandry, competence in care, and background history have nothing to do with whether or not the vet broke the spine. I've been keeping reptiles for about 15 years, as well as doing multiple species rehabs/rescues and happen to have never seen a spinal injury anywhere above the vent. I like to think my husbandry and knowledge of reptiles is pretty good, but unless the spine was kinked, I'm not 100% sure I could correctly identify a spinal injury as opposed to a cyst or infection in the spinal area.

Since you gave us no pictures of the injury, and did not perform a necropsy or have one performed, these are all valid questions. No one is saying you did anything wrong and no one is saying that your diagnosis is correct or incorrect. Based only on the information you've given here, people (many of them with just as much if not more experience with these snakes) are going to offer other plausible suggestions for what may have gone wrong.
Accusing a vet (or anyone) of negligence of that caliber is a pretty heavy accusation. Most people would ask for proof, not just an external examination, before they automatically agreed that that's the reason for the snake's death.


I really am sorry for your loss though, especially losing such an important snake so suddenly.

[chris-uk]

Once the animal had died there was nothing that could be done.

Other than informing the vet of the mistake. Even if you gained no recompense it may prevent the vet from making the same mistake again.