Hello from Oregon

[Invisible Snake]

Omg! We have to get that project going! A forum member from Canada has melanistic ordinoides

[AlbinoSquiggle]

LOL I've seen "Blizzard" and "Snow" so far. Is it the overall amount of color or lack there of that determines if they are snow or blizzard? Such as snow is basically all white with maybe a light hint of color and blizzard is pure white?
Is there a sticky somewhere that I can learn how to identify the different types of garters? Similar to the info that was posted about upper and lower labial count?

[-MARWOLAETH-]

Sorry I wasn't paying much attention to to the pics as I was slightly pissed when I posted first Now my sober eyes see 1st and 2nd are ordinoides 3rd vagrans

[Greg'sGarters]

If it is an albino ordinoides and it were bred with a melanistic would that produce a snow ordinoides?

Hopefully, someone goes out there tomorrow and finds an all black ordinoides on their front porch!

[ConcinusMan]

If this albino is an ordinoides, wouldn't that make it the first? Or at least the first known?

No. As Steve said, several albinos have been found in recent years. But they were all T - . This one appears to be T + and that would be a first that I know of. Certainly the only one in captivity.

Hopefully, someone goes out there tomorrow and finds an all black ordinoides on their front porch!

Plenty of people do. Unfortunately, they're all in B.C. Canada where black ordies are a dime a dozen. As to the "snow" question, I don't know what would happen. But imagine that the melanistic gene makes an all black snake with no pattern, then albino gene takes away the melanin. But really, nobody can predict exactly how the the two combined would look. I think the most pressing thing is to first make sure these albinos found lately have offspring. Any kind of offspring that can reach adulthood. Lets not get ahead of ourselves because if they don't have offspring, such a project won't be possible. At any rate, I wouldn't try it with a T positive anyway. I'd want to combine a T - with melanistic. I'd also like to combine T - albino and erythristic or stripeless. The possibilities are endless. But first thing's first. These albinos must have lots of offspring and they must survive to be old enough to breed. That alone is what is holding it up. Albinos are found, but the latter doesn't seem to happen and the genes are lost until someone finds another one.


Here's one of the T - albino northwesterns found recently and this is the same type that is usually found when an albino northwestern is found. I've never heard of, nor seen any pictures of a T + until now.



http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/garter-snake-lounge/9506-i-found-albino-garden-snake.html

[ProXimuS]

I remember that thread. I guess I didn't realize that snake was as ordinoides.

[ConcinusMan]

I'm still beginning to wonder if that T - albino gene only allows for yellow stripes. You would think they would have been found with red or orange, or other colors since they are polymorphic but only yellow is found on the T - albinos. Hmmm...

I still think it would be absolutely stunning if one of these erythristics was an albino. That is, if the red comes through in spite of being albino.



This is just one of many potential morphs that could be created using the albino gene and you know how that turned out for easterns:



Now imagine them with a multitude of different patterns and stripe colors or even stripeless.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Just a quick update, not sure where to post items like this yet.
Not the best picture ( trying to get her to stay still for comparison) but I woke up this morning to find a present that Gary left me...
I figured she was getting close but she isn't nearly as obvious as the other snakes going through shed.
I believe this is the 4th possibly 5th shed since I have had her. They have all been complete with the eyes and the full tail.
From what I have been reading on here if she sheds pretty consistently around 4-6 weeks then for her age she is healthy and growing well. Is that fairly accurate or am I misunderstanding something? I don't often find full size snake skins around the garden so I was trying to find out how often is "Normal".

[ConcinusMan]

Shedding frequency is tied to growth rate. The reason they have to shed is that they outgrow that layer of skin. They don't shed individual cells like you and I do so once that outer layer gets too tight, they have to shed the entire thing. A brand new skin formed underneath expands and hardens after the old one comes off. Each shed is slightly larger than the last. If she's shedding every 4-6 weeks and all in one piece, then she is healthy and growing very rapidly. Eventually, this rate will slow down as she matures.

The high frequency tells me she is still very young. Perhaps less than 18 mos. old.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I didn't start researching garters until I found her but am fairly certain she was born in 2012 sometime as she was MAYBE the size of an earthworm when first spotted.
Also I had previously mentioned finding her around June or July but I found the initial facebook posts I had made and they were around August 29th and 30th. I know she has shed at least 4 times since housing her. I only have the most recent one that's in decent shape, wasn't trying to save them at first and basically torn them out of the tank when I found them.
Really I just wanted a little reassurance that she was growing well.
Also should I look into deworming my garteres? How do I know for sure if they are infected with anything or can a person actually know for sure? I found one of your responses about garters living normal lives with parasites depending on parasite load, stress etc. but may make it more difficult to recover if they get sick. I don't want to put them at risk due to neglect but I also don't want to over do it. I could be wrong but hopefully they wont be passing new parasites/diseases since I caught them all in the same area and in the same time frame.