New Ordinoides Photos

[KephrenJorgensen]

I think she may have recieved an injury from eating, I will try the needle practice as you have mentioned, but not before I post a clear photo of the "injury". I also think it could be a swelling in the Duvernoy's gland.

[guidofatherof5]

If it is swelling in the Duvernoy's gland I would have to ask why.
Does this snake live and feed with others?
If so, it might be a bite injury from a food fight.
Looking forward to seeing some photos.

[ConcinusMan]

That snake is melanistic. Not super dark but melanistic anyway. Note how dark the eyes are. Normally a NW will have fairly bright eyes of red, gold, yellow, etc. Love the "vanishing stripe" ones. I think it's quite possible that some of the babies are melanistic too and will likely darken up as they grow.

OOO Very pretty! I do see the swollen looking area on her top left lip also.

I see it on both sides. If it's infected, the snake could be in trouble. However, I've found them quite often like that seeming to be an old injury and not really bothering them. Is that one eating OK? It is possible it's from bite injuries/food fight but not necessarily.

Can you use that camera again? or another decent one? I would like to see photos of the melanistic one I showed above, taken in natural day light, no flash. Or if you did do that, more photos please. I might be willing to trade or make some kind of deal for a melanistic like that. Possibly one or two of the babies.

[Invisible Snake]

I might be willing to trade or make some kind of deal for a melanistic like that. Possibly one or two of the babies.

I was thinking the same thing, but the OP is from Canada.

[ConcinusMan]

oh yeah. Seems like every time I find them online, they are B.C. snakes. Vancouver Island in particular is well-known for it's melanistic populations. And B.C. authorities don't take too kindly to selling / exporting wildlife.

Two projects I'd like to do, but I don't think it's going to happen, is to combine erythristic and albino, and melanistic and albino. I just can't seem to get my hands on either of the latter two, or even hets.

[ConcinusMan]

Is this your youtube channel? I can't figure out why I would be blocked from commenting. It has to be a mistake. The only comments I've ever made on that channel do not seem to be a problem. I mean, not rude and well received. Hmmm...

WildAboutTheIsland's channel - YouTube

[KephrenJorgensen]

no this is not my youtube channel. ConcinnusMan, message me about the babies. I am very happy to have a melanistic NW. My friends kept telling me the were seeing all black snakes and I didnt believe them until my maturity surpassed my age. I believe that the population of Vancouver Island melanistics may be evidence of inudstrial melanism via the huge coal industry that was Van Isle.

[KephrenJorgensen]

Living on Vancouver island is a curse and a privilege. The only snake species on the island (as far as the government is concerned) are T. ordinoides, T. e. vagrans, and the debated over or both T. sirtalis or T. s. pickeringii. Also, the Sharp-tailed snake has an endangered population on the south east side of the island, best known in the Cowichan area. A friend has claimed the presence of Rubber Boas and Pacific Rattlesnake, and I am currently waiting on a season change to go out and prove/disprove this claim. Does anyone have an idea of what might happen if I did prove their presence on V.I.? What would the government do?

[ConcinusMan]

I believe that the population of Vancouver Island melanistics may be evidence of inudstrial melanism via the huge coal industry that was Van Isle.

You must be joking. No, that's not it. Melanism is actually not extremely rare and can occur in almost any population of northwesterns. It's recessive gene causing over production of melanin, the natural dark skin pigments found in most snakes. It not only effects the skin, but the eyes too. The island is, well, an island. They are genetically isolated. Without a lot of opportunity to outcross with unrelated snakes lacking the gene this caused most of the snakes there to either carry the recessive gene, or end up melanistic themselves. Think about it. If snakes are albino and can only mate with other albinos or het albinos, what's going to happen? You're going to have a lot of albinos. Melansim (the opposite condition) still works the same way. It's a recessive gene.

Living on Vancouver island is a curse and a privilege. The only snake species on the island (as far as the government is concerned) are T. ordinoides, T. e. vagrans, and the debated over or both T. sirtalis or T. s. pickeringii. Also, the Sharp-tailed snake has an endangered population on the south east side of the island, best known in the Cowichan area. A friend has claimed the presence of Rubber Boas and Pacific Rattlesnake, and I am currently waiting on a season change to go out and prove/disprove this claim. Does anyone have an idea of what might happen if I did prove their presence on V.I.? What would the government do?

Umm... T.s. pickeringii is on the island as far as I knew. And that is a T. sirtalis so I don't know what the debate is about. I had heard that there are rubber boas there too, which wouldn't be surprising at all. I think that's already been confirmed. I guess the question is whether or not they are still there. If you proved it, why would the govt. do anything? It's of no consequence. They don't give a damn.

I don't know why I would need to messege you about the babies. You're in Canada and that's that. Unless you plan on driving to the other Vancouver, in Washington State, USA with them, I can't get my hands on them. They're hardly worth that much to make it worth your while, and they're completely worthless in Canada. In fact, it's illegal to collect or keep them, let alone sell them.

[KephrenJorgensen]

I had not thought of the isolation factor regarding the melanism, though it should have been pretty obvious. The debate over the sirtalis/sirtalis pickeringii is only a debate because it is unclear whether pickeringii is the only sirtalis on the island. I had asked you to message me because I was going to go through all that trouble because you arent the only person who is interested in these babies and it would be worthwhile for me. I am aware of the legalities of such and am currently in the process if obtaining permission to keep such species in captivity for educational purposes. I would love to see a rubber boa on the island, I will definitely be out looking to see if they are still here. And I think the government would give a damn if I told them/proved to them they had Rattlesnakes to deal with. That is something of consequence.