Pics of my Puget Sound blues

[snakeman]

I am really suprised fish and game has'nt got him yet.

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's a pic of one of my baby northwesterns....notice the similarities in the head and spots.....

[GarterGuy]

here's a pic of one of my baby northwesterns....notice the similarities in the head and spots.....

Wow, that does look a lot like my guys......so you're thinking they might be T.ordinoides? I had thought they were big earthworm eaters, while my guys are really hitting the guppies and the bigger one is eating scented pinky bits. Hmmmmm...not really sure now....scale counts, labial scale counts....all are the same between sirtalis and ordinoides...even the side stripe location is the same between the two???? I know some others who've gotten supposed T.s.pickeringii from "Bob", could all these snakes be T.ordiniodes. Anyone who's gotten any of the adults from him, let me know what you think....since the babies came from them.

[Cazador]

I also bought some from "Bob," and they are remarkably similar to your T.s. ordinoides! In fact, they could have come out of the same litter. What are the distinguishing characteristics between the two subspecies?

[abcat1993]

I think I'm the only one who hasn't bought from bob. Were can I find this so called "bob" of yours?

[GarterGuy]

I think I'm the only one who hasn't bought from bob. Were can I find this so called "bob" of yours?

He advertises on Kingsnake.com in the classified section under "other snakes"....his ad for the Pugets....which may be debatable....is listed as "cool blue garters", I also think he's got some adult T.s.fitchi that he's trying to sell.

[GarterGuy]

I also bought some from "Bob," and they are remarkably similar to your T.s. ordinoides! In fact, they could have come out of the same litter. What are the distinguishing characteristics between the two subspecies?

Well I rechecked the literature I've got and found out that T.ordinoides has a 17 scale count while T.sirtalis has a 19. Guess I gotta go count scales now. Not going to be easy, they're such small little buggars and I don't think they'll sit still for me very long! Oh, and I had thought that ordinoides was a full species, not a subspecies of sirtalis????

ssssnakeluvr......What are your adult T.ordinoides eating? Even if my little guys are or aren't ordinoides, I've seen some really nice red ones for sale at shows that I'd like to get, but don't really want to be working with something that only eats earthworms.

[GarterGuy]

OK....well I did scale counts using the pics that I have on my PC, did scale counts on a shed I have from one of the little ones and did scale counts on one of the snakes that was sitting close to the end of the tank. Yes, I have a headache now! I also did scale counts on sheds and pics of my T.s.concinnus for comparison and from what I can tell, the snakes I bought as T.s.pickeringii are actually T.ordinoides. 17 scale counts on the pic, sheds and snake, compared to 19 on my T.s.concinnus sheds and pics. Now having said that, I will also say, these are REALLY small scales and I did use a magnifying glass to do it, but if I'm off by only one scale ( you count from caudal scale up to the center point on the snake, no the whole way around...which would be REALLY HARD!) then I'm wrong. So I'll be interested to see what othes have to say on this one with their specimens.....but I'm leaning towards blue phase T.ordinoides rather than blue phase T.s.pickeringii.

[ssssnakeluvr]

my adult was eating fish....she passed away last fall. she was given to me bya reptile rescue guy here in SLC, given to him by someone that caught her... the babies are being finicky..took a few guppies during the fall (after my rescue friend gave me them, he had a female given to him and she had babies) but they quit eating. I put them down for a month and just brought them out...gave them a couple days to warm up. I will be feeding for the first time tomorrow after hibernation...hopefully they will start eating!!! I have frozen catfish, salmon, and a few worms....
they do look like ordinoides to me.....very nice too...I want to get some of the other color phases...blue, red stripe, I have even seen a pic of a lighter colored one that has red coloring like the western terrestrials....

[Cazador]

Just got done counting scales on two of the blue garters I got from Bob. Both have 17 scale rows (starting dorsal to the 10th ventral scale, anterior of the vent). Unfortunately, after counting the same scale rows on three of my T.s. concinnus I also got 17 scale rows for each of them .

I only looked at one key (from Rossman), but he doesn't mention 17 scale rows as being a definitive characteristic for T. ordinoides (or T. sirtalis). I'm no taxonomist and don't really feel like counting teeth (as Rossman suggests), so all I really know at this point is that I bought some pretty blue garters . Roy, did the scale row count come from a field guide?

Don, I really like those northwesterns with red stripes as well, but they seem to be hard to come by.
Rick