All the feeder insects are not recommended as a food sourse for the garter snakes ??

[NickB]

I remember reading a report of Natrix Maura (Viperine) eating flies in the wild, someone posted about seeing it on some website. Ofcourse flies don't really have much of an exoskeleton though. Out of interest how come Thamnophis can't digest exoskeletons but they can digest skeletons from rodents?

PS.
I know I bumped this. I was searching for something and bumped into this.

[Stefan-A]

I remember reading a report of Natrix Maura (Viperine) eating flies in the wild, someone posted about seeing it on some website. Ofcourse flies don't really have much of an exoskeleton though. Out of interest how come Thamnophis can't digest exoskeletons but they can digest skeletons from rodents?

PS.
I know I bumped this. I was searching for something and bumped into this.

Different material. Chitin requires different enzymes (chitinase), or, according to wikipedia, "bacterial symbionts and lengthy fermentations". You'll also find that many animals have trouble with keratin as well.

I'd also like to hear more about this fly eating thing.

[ShadowBeast]

The only way I'd trust feeding a snake a frog would be feeding it tank raised frogs since they would have less chance of parasites.
It's strange that garter snakes can't digest insects and yet some garter snakes are able to eat eggs.

[guidofatherof5]

Egg is a completely different substance.

[NickB]

Different material. Chitin requires different enzymes (chitinase), or, according to wikipedia, "bacterial symbionts and lengthy fermentations". You'll also find that many animals have trouble with keratin as well.

I'd also like to hear more about this fly eating thing.

Aaah thanks for sharing, very interesting. A quick google for the fly stuff and I found this person claiming to have seen it: Viperine Snake Natrix maura but that certainly isn't the one I read before, which is more intriguing as it shows their are multiple people who believe they've witnessed Maura hunting flies. I've never read any particularly reliable source claiming it though, it's always just posts on forums.

[ConcinusMan]

Egg is a completely different substance.

Yeah, egg shell and bones are no problem. The hardness is calcium which is easily disolved by any strong (stomach) acid. Keratin (hair, nails/claws, scales) insect exoskeletons (chitin) is hard protein. As you might know by experiencing a hair clogged drain, that takes a strong alkaline (sodium hydroxide found in drain cleaners) to break up, or as Stefan mentioned, enzymes that most animals lack in their digestive process. It just takes too long to break down, and plugs them up.

[NickB]

Yeah, egg shell and bones are no problem. The hardness is calcium which is easily disolved by any strong (stomach) acid. Keratin (hair, nails/claws, scales) insect exoskeletons (chitin) is hard protein. As you might know by experiencing a hair clogged drain, that takes a strong alkaline (sodium hydroxide found in drain cleaners) to break up, or as Stefan mentioned, enzymes that most animals lack in their digestive process. It just takes too long to break down, and plugs them up.

So by that logic feeding whole mice isn't good due to the keratin on the nails?Would it be better to cut the feet off?

[guidofatherof5]

So by that logic feeding whole mice isn't good due to the keratin on the nails?Would it be better to cut the feet off?

What you are talking about is "blind logic" This is not always the best way to solve a problem or make a decision.

[NickB]

What you are talking about is "blind logic" This is not always the best way to solve a problem or make a decision.

That's why I used a question mark So Keratin must be fine in small enough amounts that it can just pass through the system? Kind of like us eating sweetcorn.

[kibakiba]

I was too tired to type when I first looked at this thread, but..
I think that since pinkies are so small, and are (slightly) hairless, it doesn't hurt the snake to feed them regularly. Older mice, I wouldn't feed unless they were skinned. I don't think a little bit of mouse nails are going to kill or harm a snake as long as they're able to pass it.