T. eques cuitzeoensis behaviour

[guidofatherof5]

Sounds like a well thought out plan Chris.
Thanks for holding to a quarantine period in the face of housing difficulties.

[chris-uk]

Sounds like a well thought out plan Chris.
Thanks for holding to a quarantine period in the face of housing difficulties.

Soon housing difficulties will be over, and I'll be able to post some drool-inducing pictures of a nice snake room, rather than having the garters scattered around the house on available surfaces. Instead I'll have more time constraints, but at least Char will be able to handle the snakes more once the pregnancy is over.

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

I will dig the book out later when home. I'm not sure about snakes been miserable , you can't give snakes human emotions. I Only put mine together for a month and there full grown. With the weight you say, I'm sure it does happen in the wild but that does not mean its good for the snake. I'm sure you know there much bigger than other garters so the ideal breeding weight is different . You can not keep an eye on them 24/7. I'm not trying to be funny but having sold them I feel reresponsible that there looked after.

[chris-uk]

I will dig the book out later when home.

Thanks, I'm interested to read anything about Cuitzeos as there's not much written about them (Steve Bol is one of the few people that has written about Cuitzeos).

I'm not sure about snakes been miserable , you can't give snakes human emotions.

I tend to write in a way that people can relate to, I'm not anthropomorphising them, I know that they don't have emotions. When an animal that was eating well, was active and reasonably sociable is moved and then becomes reclusive and stops eating saying that he was miserable in his new surroundings isn't an unreasonable description.

I Only put mine together for a month and there full grown. With the weight you say, I'm sure it does happen in the wild but that does not mean its good for the snake. I'm sure you know there much bigger than other garters so the ideal breeding weight is different .

I was basing the statement about weight on the Connant article on T. eques species where his gravid sample was 1020mm. They're both at the bottom end of the breeding spectrum, and I don't want to see them breed for another year (maybe two), by which time they should be plenty big enough. What happens in the wild is a good guide as to how we should treat our captive animals, natural selection is a powerful mechanism to propagate beneficial traits and remove harmful ones - granted, we have it in our power as their keepers to influence their environment in the most positive way, and that includes breeding them when they are older.

You can not keep an eye on them 24/7.

I can have a pretty good go, between them living right under my nose and having a webcam constantly watching them... But you are right, I can't watch them 24/7.

I'm not trying to be funny but having sold them I feel reresponsible that there looked after.

If I'd not met you I'd think that was a veiled implication that you thought that these two weren't being looked after - I know that's not what you meant though. There's others that could have bought these snakes, taken them away and not cared for them - that I belong to a forum where I tell other members what I'm doing with my snakes means that you know what is happening with these two. They aren't in ideal enclosures right now, but I've made a conscious decision that I'd rather that they were both in a comfortable viv where I can control the temperature, humidity and give them an interesting environment - that's how they seem to be more relaxed, whether it's the species or these individuals they seem to be more active when there is another snake with them.
The minute I see any courting behaviour I'll have one of them in a RUB (as I did when they courted in the Autumn). I take onboard your view about housing this pair separately, if it wasn't for your opinion I wouldn't be separating them in the new snake room.

I think that's enough about my two Cuitzeos for now. How are your pair doing John? Any interesting observations?

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

Thats fair enough, I just worry about them as I think we have the only 2 pairs in UK (as far as I know) and I would feel terrible if something happened to them that could be avoided. Its more the long term affects of giving birth to young, ie stunted growth and shorter lifespan. I'm only going on what more experienced keepers have passed on to me & not personal experience but it does make sense.

Found that book and apologies its T elegans that it talks about males been killed by females.

Mine are doing great, female is definitely the biggest garter I have kept. She seems more edgy and shyer in the past few weeks so its all good signs. I am 80% she is gravid. Should be due in June. The male is so much smaller!

[chris-uk]

I feel quite privileged to to have these Cuitzeos, so I keep a much closer eye on them than any of the others I have. I thought I'd read about someone else that had a pair, but that could be someone who bought the "Cuitzeo" from Blue Lizard, that wasn't actually a Cuitzeo... I certainly think that if your girl has a litter she's going to quadruple the number of this species in the country.
I may well not breed from Lacci for another 2 years, I'll brumate her in the Autumn so that we have the option, but whether I breed anything depends on how much time I think I'll have after this year's human breeding project... Your bloodline may be the only one in the country still for the next few years.

Vlad is maybe half the size of Lacci, I need to have a mass weighing session and get up-to-date weights on all of our garters.

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

The brumation side is different when I asked Steve Bol . Heat lamps on in the day but a lower night time drop. I'm not sure if brumation is important for these . I guess trial and error.

[chris-uk]

The brumation side is different when I asked Steve Bol . Heat lamps on in the day but a lower night time drop. I'm not sure if brumation is important for these . I guess trial and error.

That would make sense given the altitude and climate of Lake Cuitzeo. If they need a lower night time drop I may need to move them into the loft of garage, and manage the temps. You put your Cuitzeos in the loft this winter didn't you? Did you give them daytime heat, or is this something you've learned recently?

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

I did put them in the loft for a couple of weeks but was to cold day and night. So I put them in the spare room. The temps dropped at night but were still sutable in the day time. Now the new snake room is done Iwill have more control on tempreture.

[chris-uk]

I mentioned this in a thread about feeding worms to garters, but worth making the observation that when I offered worms Vlad ate them and Lacci refused (but she was being fussy about fish that feed as well.). Vlad has actually been eating better than Lacci over the last few weeks, she's still eating but Vlad is far more active in hunting the food down when I offer it.
I'm finding that with the lighter days they are both sunning themselves in the Thammock more often.