ID Please ASAP?

[EasternGirl]

Are you talking about counting supralabials in the three pics that you last posted? It's a bit difficult for me to count from those pics. I can get a count on the first pic...I am saying definitely 8 supralabials...definitely a checkered...a T.marcianus. I am having trouble counting from the position of the head in the second pic...but I think I am counting 7 supralabials...if I am, then I will say an eastern....T.s.sirtalis. I think I count 8 supralabials in the last pic...which rules out eastern...so I will say a radix...T.radix. Thinking about what you have said...about the face of the radix and how they can look like a marcianus...and looking at that last pic...if I am correct about that...then I will agree with you that your snake is most likely a T.radix.

[Natrix]

T marcianus
Supralabials 8
Infralabials 10
Lateral stripe confind to row 3 extending to row 2 near the tail
Characteristic black blotches either side of the head with a pale cresent at the corners of the mouth
Even check pattern charcterised by squares. Dorsal stripe usually thin.

T radix
Supralabials 7
InfraLabials 9
Lateral stripe rows 3 and 4
Supralabials sutures with black bars and/or wedges
Between the Lateral stripe and the Dorsal stripe are two rows of regular black blotches which may or may not be arranged in two neat rows.

My Snake
Supralabials 7
InfraLabials 9
Lateral stripe rows 3 and 4
Supralabials sutures with black bars and/or wedges
Between the Lateral stripe and the Dorsal stripe are two rows of regular black blotches

[guidofatherof5]

I'm going with T.radix
The final call becomes yours Rod. Your decision to breed must be your call.
If you have any doubts that it is not a true radix I hope you will not breed it.
From our Skype conversations it looked like this male is working his way into your heart.
Nothing wrong with that.

[EasternGirl]

Okay..wait..I am completely confused now. I thought Steve told me more than once that radixes have 8 supralabials.

[guidofatherof5]

Okay..wait..I am completely confused now. I thought Steve told me more than once that radixes have 8 supralabials.

Page 235

[EasternGirl]

Okay...I got out the bible...I see that radixes can have 7 or 8 supralabials...that changes my IDing of snakes quite a bit now...

I agree Rod...that your snake appears to be a radix. He is a lovely snake.

Btw...I was reading a little about T.s.sirtalis...and since Cee Cee is having so much scale spread lately...I can totally see the red in between her scales that is mentioned occurring in easterns sometimes. It is very cool.

[EasternGirl]

Page 235

Ha ha...I read it right before you put it up....

[Natrix]

I'm going with T.radix
The final call becomes yours Rod. Your decision to breed must be your call.
If you have any doubts that it is not a true radix I hope you will not breed it.
From our Skype conversations it looked like this male is working his way into your heart.
Nothing wrong with that.

Like I said Steve, Given the comparisons I have done, At the moment I am 98% sure that He is a True radix. Theres is still a very small 2% doubt that he is a Hybrid. In which case he will go into a single sex display enclosure of 'Oddballs'. I am in no way an expert and there are lots of people with far more experience than I. But the only way to learn is to ask questions and seek the answers to those questions. "when you have examined all the evidence and excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must therefore be the truth."
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Apart from counting teeth and doing an autopsy ( not an option ) there is very little else I can do to be 110% sure.

On the subject of hybrids, I have just come accross a similar snake being advertised as a marcianus that is around the same age. I have asked for clearer pictures showing Facial and body scaling and pattern. As yet I haven't had a reply. In the mean-time here are the photos that the guy has put up at the request of another person.
DSCN0294.jpgDSCN0778 mouse.jpg
This guy has been advised about feeding a mainly mice diet. His responce has prompted a link to the care sheet to be provided. I hope that he will respond sometime today.
Meanwhile it's great to be using my brain again. Actually looking closely and observing small detail rather than just admiring the colour and the pattern. It is very easy to look at an animal on a computer screen and miss the small details that really matter. I hope that this thread will encourage people to look more closely at their charges and see what makes the Thamnophis species such special little snakes. I really DO need to get a hold of one of those 'Bibles'. (I have the link saved on my PC and filed for future reference)

[EasternGirl]

I don't know...with the spots I am seeing in that pic...I can't see a marcianus right now...but I will have to see more pics. A diet of mice only is not as worrisome as a diet of fish alone. There are actually members and breeders on here that I believe feed diets of pinkies only and do fine. The fish only diet is the worry with the B1 deficiency. Although most of us do suggest a varied diet is best for the optimum health of the garter.

[chris-uk]

I think you're about as certain as you can be Rod. The small details that you can observe first hand are more valuable than the rest of us seeing things in photos. If you think it's a radix the only thing better than you making observations and seeking help to interpret what your seeing, would be the first hand observations of someone like Steve (let's face it if he couldn't make the call on radix/not a radix nobody is going to). But that's not an option.

And I thoroughly recommend getting your hands on the garters bible, I pondered it for a while because £50 is lot for a book that is almost 20 years old (the information anyway, my copy is spanking new and shrink wrapped). There's a few sellers on Amazon marketplace that have copies.