ID Please ASAP?

[kibakiba]

Even with this last pic, I say checkered. It doesn't look like a radicx to me at all.

[Natrix]

Steve says it looks like T marcianus....... BUT will this throw confusion into the mix? We will have to wait and see.

[ConcinusMan]

That's why I asked for help with IDing it. 'Tis confusing

Well that settles in then. It's a northern garter.

[ConcinusMan]

That's why I asked for help with IDing it. 'Tis confusing

Well that settles in then. It's a northern garter.

T. radix:



And now, the snake in question:



C'mon now... that's a radix. I knew better than to say "marcianus" when I saw that the spots weren't touching.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... too much damn hybridizing going on over there in Europe. Seriously. Could be both. Could be radix and marcianus, or some eastern thrown in there. They just don't give a darn over there. If it's a garter, they'll breed 'em. They don't care if they're not the same species. marcianus X radix are well documented as two species known to readily interbreed in captivity.

I can tell you one thing... the day that I have such a hard time identifying garters for sale in the U.S. is the day I stop buying those captive bred garters. In fact, the only reason I've ever bought CB snakes is to get a few morphs as a "novelty" for my collection but even those morphs were easily identified by species and even subspecies. I'd much prefer a healthy WC specimen of unquestionable origin.

[ConcinusMan]

First post, the albino is a checkered garter. This last pic looks like a radix to me. The pic where the normal snake is wrapped around your hand is who-knows-what. Now you say you just want to throw them in together. Well, if they have babies, it's no wonder why there's so much confusion.

[Natrix]

I'd much prefer a healthy WC specimen of unquestionable origin. But we brits don't have luxury, we have no choice but to use CB specimens. The only thing we can do is buy from reputable breeders. The fact is that this snake was too good to pass up. and Unless I can get a positive ID of it then it will remain as part of the 4' x 20" x 20" Display collection that I intend to have in the living room, ( but that is another project for a later thread).

[Natrix]

First post, the albino is a checkered garter. This last pic looks like a radix to me. The pic where the normal snake is wrapped around your hand is who-knows-what. Now you say you just want to throw them in together. Well, if they have babies, it's no wonder why there's so much confusion.

Firstly, Both animals are meant to be male. So there is no chance of breeding. Secondly, that isn't me in the picture. I don't collect it until tomorrow. I have been told that it is a male T marcianus - Chequered Garter. It is I believe about 4yrs old but unsure. As I have just said in my previous post If I can't get a positive ID then it will not be going into my intended breeding program. The Albino however will be.

[Natrix]

T marcianus.jpgT marcianus 2.jpgGarter.jpg The Three pics of the snake in question? marc3.jpg And one that I have 'Borrowed' from the internet for comparison. Still confused.

[ConcinusMan]

I'd much prefer a healthy WC specimen of unquestionable origin. But we brits don't have luxury, we have no choice but to use CB specimens.

Yeah, I know. Quite the dilemma, but to confuse matters, you also get plenty of WC snakes imported but misidentified and/or misrepresented as CB.

Firstly, Both animals are meant to be male.

And both supposedly checkered garters. If you can't be sure of the species, how do you expect to be sure of the sexes?

I would say you don't have much of a choice but to take the breeders word for it on both matters. It's very difficult to tell from the few pictures posted here, from across the Atlantic Ocean. In some pics I'll swear it's a checkered, in others, a radix. My suggestion is to get the snake in hand and make all the comparisons you can and draw your own conclusion or post better pictures after you have it and then run it across us (the forum) again. I'm certain we can at least confirm the sex, if not sex and species, with better pictures. I'm very interested to see the underside of this normal colored snake. That's one more piece of the puzzle that we are missing.

[gregmonsta]

Looks marcianus to me. You do get some very nice olive coloured examples. In fact, I remember James' female, called Olive, being quite, well, olive.

I do know that there was a run of idiots crossing radix with marcianus a few years back. Even to the point where they were getting sold as 'Great plains x checkered garters' in shops. Sadly, unless you have the full history on the animal you will never know as hybrids sometimes don't show the traits of one parent species at all.