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[EasternGirl]

The first one looks like a T.s.sirtalis but the second one does not...that's why I asked. I've never seen an eastern with a dorsal stripe like that second one. I remember that radixes have those pretty orange dorsal stripes and they often look very similar to my easterns...so I was thinking maybe it was a radix...but Steve says they aren't in that area. Texas garters huh? Are those the T.eques megalops? Looks like those. I saw a pic of the annectens...saw the orange dorsal stripe...they do look like it could be those too. I just thought it was interesting that they said sirtalis sirtalis...people are always misidentifying easterns. Not sure how you can put up one pic of an eastern and then put up another pic of a snake that doesn't look anything like it and say that it is also an eastern (I'm speaking of sirtalis sirtalis subspecies not sirtalis when I refer to an eastern).

[ConcinusMan]

yes, without local info i would say those are texas garters...subspecies...i wonder some times

Yeah, I thought so too. Sure gave me the impression that they were Texas garters. Doesn't mean there aren't easterns somewhere that look just like 'em.

Not sure how you can put up one pic of an eastern and then put up another pic of a snake that doesn't look anything like it and say that it is also an eastern (I'm speaking of sirtalis sirtalis subspecies not sirtalis when I refer to an eastern).

Polymorphism, that's how. Easterns are almost as variable as T. ordinoides. You're probably just used to them all looking the same in your local area. They can look completely different 100 miles away. And besides, those two snakes pictured aren't all that different. They appear to be the same species/subspecies to me, although they are obviously not identical to one another.

Anyway, I did a little quick research. Eastern garters in Arkansas have yellow or orange stripes, just like the ones shown. Background color can be patterned (in that characteristic "checkered" pattern that easterns have sometimes) or solid and in any case is usually jet black or very dark brown. So there you go. Those two pictured are typical for eastern garters found in that state.

Herps of Arkansas: Snakes

[EasternGirl]

Good to know, Richard, thanks. I am learning more and more how different eastern garters can look in different locals. Your info is helpful as I am trying to gather as much info and pics as I can to put together a website dedicated to T.s.sirtalis in the future. I am going to bookmark that site...I may try to contact the website admin. to see if I can get permission to use the info about the eastern garters in Arkansas and the pics in my website.

[ConcinusMan]

I want to get pics of concinnus' and pickeringii with locality info to create a better picture of what they look like in different areas of their ranges. Something similar to what you're saying. If I could only find the time.

[EasternGirl]

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