Toothless Pics

[katach]

Thanks Richard, I feel better about keeping my male NW in with the girls now.

[ConcinusMan]

You have nothing to worry about. These snakes share dens in the wild, and tanks in captivity. They have never crossed to anyone's knowledge. In the wild or captivity. If you did manage it, you would go down in the history books as the first to accomplish it. I did read a scientific paper about this years ago. Apparently it wouldn't work due to the very different shape of the hemipenes on these two species.

[katach]

Thanks!

[brain]

Red phase puget. Vancouver Island:

You might have something there the more I look at what I have ... maybe T.s. pickeringii.

However, what I have do not have the blue trait. Now from about two inch from the chin is off with to blue and then it gets almost pure black as you get to the tail.

All four (2.1.?) have the red spots.

[ConcinusMan]

Those are pugets. Fitchi has a wider dorsal stripe that is typically very yellow and all the stripes are well defined with sharp edges. I wouldn't expect blue on a puget at all unless you got it from the extreme south end of Puget Sound and even there they aren't all blue. I don't know of any other part of their range where blue ones can be found. I've said this a million times. Blue pugets are the exception. Most are not blue at all. Heck, the red phase ones are more widespread. The blue ones you see in the trade are a fairly localized color phase found from S. Olympia/Ft. Lews to Dupont, WA. That's a very small part of their range. Finding blue ones elsewhere is highly unlikely.

Take away the red spotting and what you have pictured there, is very typically colored puget sound garters. You'll find only the red phase pugets in northern WA and Vancouver Island/B.C. You won't find blue and you won't find them without the red where you are.

It can get quite confusing. The line between what is a red phase puget and what is a fitchi gets quite blurry up there. They likely cross too, since they're both T. sirtalis (and we're "splitting hairs") but pure fitchi's usually aren't found in such a wet climate. Here in WA fitchi lives on the desert side of the state whereas red phase pugets / concinnus' are on the wetter west side. I'm pretty sure the same is true in B.C. I think fitchi is east of mountains or found far inland away from the coastal weather influence.

[brain]

Those are pugets. I wouldn't expect blue on a puget at all unless you got it from the extreme south end of Puget Sound and even there they aren't all blue. Take away the red spotting and what you have pictured there, is very typically colored puget sound garters. It can get quite confusing. I think fitchi is east of mountains or found far inland away from the coastal weather influence.

The largest fem a small male came from near a creek behind the Tulalip Reservation the other two are from Deception Pass State Park here on the island.
Therefore, I have been thinking the Puget is a blue, but that is not the case, Ok. T. s. sirtalis "Florida blue" can be of the blue coloration and the Puget “blue” is a rear case more likely the red phase, got it.
I found a melanistic in my yard, sometime back, so that could have been Puget or Wander (ordinoides)?
Thanks for say this a million and 1 times.

[ConcinusMan]

It would be very easy to determine if the melanistic one was a sirtalis or an ordinoides. The scales and head proportions of those two are different. It's already well known that in B.C., melanistic ordinoides are quite common especially on Vancouver Island. If you're talking about the one you showed us pics of a while back, I'm sure it was a northwestern.

And yes, saying that pugets are blue is like saying easterns are blue just because they are that color in parts of Florida. We all know that easterns aren't blue. Just some of them and only from certain locations. Same goes for Pugets.

[katach]

Here are some updated pics of Toothless. Some good close-ups! Her color is a little more green than Cotton. These are pretty true to her coloring.

[katach]

A few more.

[ConcinusMan]

Another fine example of the variety in Puget sound garters. That turquoise throat is also present in T.s. concinnus but only ones from SW WA and the WA coast. (Big Bertha from Clark Co. WA has it) Interesting.

I want to ad that T.s. concinnus is highly variable too, in certain locations, or is variable depending on what part of their range they are from. Like blue pugets, the very red, orange headed, or brightly colored snakes we typically see in the trade do not necessarily represent the majority of them. I've been able to show you guys how different they can look and show you some of that variety in the subspecies that you've never seen before.