Any advice please - no idea what's wrong.

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear about your loss.
Wish I could get you a few of my radixes.

[Mix]

Thanks Steve. I would happily run an exchange student programme so they can 'see the world'! Actually, I think it would be better if I just move continent!

[PINJOHN]

i was speaking to a garter enthusiast some weeks ago and during our conversation he told me that he had heard that san frans were not living much past two years of age supposedly because of the inbreeding,[ this is in the UK]
didn't give me any details so i don't know how accurate this info is, but inbreeding is likely to be a bigger problem on this side of the pond than the U.S.A and with the harder to get species which are not supplemented [gene pool wise]with W.C as happens with the more common garters.
don't know what type your snakes are so this might not be a consideration.

[Mix]

I actually heard that about the San Frans too.

They were Santa Cruz (a. atratus); sisters from unrelated German parents, though I have none of the specifics other than that, or any history beyond.
From what I can gather, atratus aren't that common over here, but their litter-mates were doing well, last I heard. It's a thought.

The more I read of people losing snakes due to the fish they were eating, the more it sounds like it may have been that. They grew less active over time, and toward the end, ate little. On the last evening, Silver just lay around, not moving much even when checking her - which was what alerted me that something was wrong (coupled with the fact that Laguna had already died), but I couldn't tell what was wrong as they appeared healthy in all other senses. They didn't get skinny or have any kind of weird behaviour... Just seemed to eat less. Silver even shed a few days before.

I thought I was getting good fish, but obviously not. I won't be risking it again - I used the same fish for Tigerlily from the beginning, and all three are now gone.

[flickerfriend]

Im so sorry about silver.

[Moose]

Hi Mix, sorry to hear about your problems. Do you have a daylight tube fitted? I put one in a while ago & my 2 have started eating after a long fast. I also now feed fresh fish, not frozen, as i read about induced thiamine deficiency through lack of (vitaminB). From one of my books frozen fish (especially sea fish) contain an antivitamen called Thiaminase which destroys the natural vitamin B.

[ConcinusMan]

Fresh or frozen, saltwater or freshwater fish, has nothing to do with thiaminase. Live fish carries way more risk to your snakes than previously frozen fish, even if your live fish does not contain thiaminase.

[drache]

sorry about your losses
a few years ago I lost a garter I had fed fresh fish to, and I have not done that since
I believe that even "good quality" fish can potentially carry parasites, bacteria, or environmental toxins
some of that stuff is rendered less potent by freezing
freezing does not create thiaminase, but it does diminish the b vitamins
when a fish does contain thiaminase, supplementation will not solve the problem, but when the vitamins have been degraded due to freezing, supplementation can compensate
ideally we would like to feed a complete food, but feeding them something safe is sort of a priority