Shedding and Giving Birth

[Chondro788]

Is there a correlation between shed time of the mother and when she will drop her babies. I know when I bred Ball Pythons we would always mark the date of the post ovulation shed, or the "pre egg lay shed" and know in "about" 30 days she would lay her eggs. So has anyone kept records and noticed this with garters as well? I will be keeping records on mine this year to try and find a correlation, but I figure someone on here has probably already done this research.
Thanks,
Jason

[ConcinusMan]

All I can say about that is my garters usually breed a week or three after coming out of brumation and it usually happens within a day or two of that first shed (the female). After the mating is done, she starts to swell of course. This eventually causes her skin to be too tight. It's really whenever that happens, is when she sheds again. Big bertha shed, then mated the same day. Only 4 weeks later she shed again so her skin could accommodate the growth. She didn't shed again during her pregnancy. This is pretty typical but sometimes they have to shed again in late stages. Now that she gave birth and shrank, she went right into shed again.

It's been my experience with garters that you can't use shedding as an indication of when they will pop. They really just shed whenever the skin is too tight. However, If I see the mating, I can predict within 5-7 days when she will pop, just counting the days on a calendar. Knowing that concinnus' give birth right around 90 days when it's warm, (up to 110 days when it's relatively cool) I just counted the days on a calendar. I was only off by 3 days by counting from the time of mating. I predicted day 90. She gave birth on day 87.

Like I said you can't really use shedding as guide. At what stage during her pregnancy she sheds, depends on when her skin gets too tight. That can happen at any time during the pregnancy. Could even happen twice if her size increases a lot after the first gravid shed.

[Scott F]

Hey Jason,

It varies a bit, but after the last shed b4 dropping the babies, it is usually within 2-3 weeks from the shed, sometimes sooner, sometimes longer but that's the average. Melanogaster last year dropped her babies over 4 months after breeding, that's the longest I have ever found garter's gestation to be (didn't even know she was gravid to boot).

Scott

[ConcinusMan]

Melanogaster last year dropped her babies over 4 months after breeding, that's the longest I have ever found garter's gestation to be (didn't even know she was gravid to boot).

Scott

Because she likely wasn't gravid right away. I've known northwesterns (T. ordinoides) to mate and not ovulate right away. Sometimes not until months later. They can actually mate and not have male contact for about a year, and still have a litter when they finally do ovulate. They may even go through a fall mating and a spring mating with several males and still not get gravid. Actual gestation of said Melanogaster may have been much shorter than 4 months. Gestation does not always begin at the time of mating. It can be delayed. Assuming a gestation period of 90 days for said Melanogaster only puts the ovulation delay at around 4-5 weeks. Not all that long of a delay.

Still, most garter species' will only become receptive when they are ready to ovulate, or when their eggs are ready to be fertilized. There are a few that will accept a mate and hold the sperm until they are better prepared or until weather and/or food supply is more optimal for producing viable eggs/offspring.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i agree with Scott, 2-3 weeks after she sheds on average...i used to keep track, used to take notes, weigh the snake, etc...but now my thing is when they come...they come...once i think ive got it figured out, i get a curveball...every year it seems like i experience something a little different

[ConcinusMan]

i agree with Scott,

Of course, you do. This is in public, now isn't it? I get the feeling you would agree with communism in public if you thought it was the "winning" side. But at the same time, hold secret meetings and tell everyone you disagree with the govt.

once i think ive got it figured out, i get a curveball...every year it seems like i experience something a little different

That's only because you're not paying attention. You pretty much said so yourself:

I used to keep track, used to take notes, weigh the snake, etc...but now my thing is when they come...they come

Well, I must tell you, it doesn't quite work that way mister smarty pants. They don't just "come when they come". They come after the female ovulates AND the eggs get fertilized. It's only after that point that a gestation period takes place. This doesn't necessarily coincide with the time that the female accepts the male as her mate. The actual gestation period of course, varies according to several factors even though it usually takes place within a certain period of time but it sure as heck doesn't just "come when it comes" and it sure as heck doesn't follow any rule that says gestation begins at copulation and it sure as heck doesn't follow any shedding schedule. Not by a long shot. Neener neener.

[BUSHSNAKE]

pick on Joe day Richard?...lol

[ConcinusMan]

Yeah sure, why not. I've already picked on most everyone here. I figured you deserved a turn.

[BLUESIRTALIS]

I've noticed from breeding corns,kings, and milks that when they shed you have between 7 to 14 days before they lay eggs, but with garters i have never noticed a certain time frame from shedding.