communal Housing

[kibakiba]

I keep a lot of my snakes together. I have Snakey and Ember living together in a 15 gallon long currently, Mama and Snap in a 20 gallon long, Thumbelina (baby male) and Runt (2 year old female) in a 20 gallon and 5 4 month old babies in a one gallon. Everyone does fine and I never have any problems with them

[ConcinusMan]

Keep in mind it isn't just about "maximum bodies per square foot".

Exactly.

You're going to get a lot of different answers, most of them confusing and conflicting, from different people. This is one of those answers that comes with experience and everyone has different experiences depending on their particular snakes and/or their particular husbandry style. It's really up to you to gauge your snake's sizes and lifesyles and how they get along with each other. It's up to you to be able to spot stress and other problems related to overcrowding. Again, this is something that comes with experience. It depends on your particular snakes, and it also depends on what works for you AND your snakes.

I try to keep my enclosure's shorter than 18 inches tall but that's only because I like to get the most efficiency from overhead heat emitters or dome basking light or florescent fixtures.

As long as the enclosure is at least 18 inches tall, I'm more concerned with floor space when it comes to housing my snakes. However, the longer the better IMO. What I mean is, I favor a 4 foot enclosure that is only a foot or 1.5 feet wide over a square enclosure with the same floor space. The longer enclosure leaves more floor space dedicated to length. (well, duh) This will allow me to make a wide temperature gradient and/or a basking area at both ends (so snakes can separate to two different basking areas) and alows me to place the enclosure along a wall without it taking up half the room. Again, depends on what works for you AND your snakes.

One can have an enclosure the 50 X 50 feet and yet, if there is not an adequate number of cool and warm basking/hiding places, and the snakes are cramming themselves into the same comfortable spot, it will not be enough for more than two small snakes. It's a balancing act. Your snakes should have enough length to their enclosure to fully stretch out even if they rarely do so. At the same time, they shouldn't have to crowd and pile up in order to share that "perfect" spot. This is not to say that they won't do so anyway, (pile up together) but they shouldn't be forced to do so. They should have more than one perfect spot if there are many snakes, and should have a choice to separate AND be comfortable.

Your question is a good one, but hard to answer definitively but going by my experience, your enclosure is probably adequate for 2-3 snakes sized 1.5 - 2.5 feet long. That's just a general guess, keeping in mind other things I have said. The same enclosure may comfortably house many more snakes of smaller size, especially if there is plenty of choices for hiding places and basking areas.

I think 4 snakes in your enclosure is pushing it if they are bigger than 1.5 feet each.

[Enneirda.]

Thank you for your help guys. It helps me a lot to hear all of your ideas on it, it makes it a lot easier for me to stay in the middle ground lol.

your enclosure is probably adequate for 2-3 snakes sized 1.5 - 2.5 feet long.

What are your thoughts on full grown females? Do you think two would fit?

[ConcinusMan]

Probably but it seems like it would be a bit small if they are very large snakes. I keep big bertha (a few inches shy of 4 feet) in with another 3 ft. female and two much smaller males. Their enclosure is a 55 gallon long. (4ft X 1ft X 21 inches tall)

I wouldn't put any more snakes in that particular enclosure but if the two big girls weren't in there, it would probably be fine for 6-8 small snakes.

[Enneirda.]

Ok, thank you very much for the great info.

[RedSidedSPR]

Iagree with Richard

I think if a cage can hold 1 snake, it can hold 2... but it's never a bad idea to upsize when putting them together.

I also think that babies should be housed together regardless (it makes them feel moer secure) and if they're babies, that, kinda of alot of babies can live comfortably together... even in a 10gal... like, 10 babies... but be ready to either upgrade to something MUCH bigger when they grow, or seperate them into 20gals. Because that will only work for a little while.

[ConcinusMan]

Nothing beats watching your snakes too. Different sizes, sexes, and individuals will tolerate crowding better than others. It's up to you to be watching for signs of stress, which include, but are not limited to, rooting around in substrate constantly, poking noses against glass, constantly looking for a way out, nervousness, etc.

As long as your snakes show no signs of stress, seem relaxed together, and also there's the factor of how fast the enclosure gets saturated with urates/feces, etc. You can spot signs of overcrowding if you know what to look for. It's not as simple as "this many snakes, of this size, go in this enclosure". Much depends on the individual snakes too.

A while back, i had a couple of young males that totally stressed out when kept in that same enclosure with the girls, but were fine on their own in a smaller enclosure. Right now, I have two bigger males in with those same females, and they seem perfectly content and everyone gets long fine. Nobody is stressing. Adding one more snake might work, but depending on the individual snake, it could throw the whole household out of whack, and cause stress among one or more of the snakes. It's just something you need to have an eye for and catch it early. Social stress can be a killer if it goes on too long.

After years of experience it's easy to spot. However, even a beginner can tell when his/her snakes don't seem "happy" and relaxed.

Steve knows what I'm talking about. He can tell you a lot about "group dynamics"

[kibakiba]

Snap roots around in the substrate all the time, she did it more so when she was alone, but she only did it when my room was cold. Rooting seems to be her way of burying herself. Her and Mama get along nicely, they are almost always laying together, if Snap isn't about to shed or after she's gone a couple days without eating.

I wouldn't really say that rooting around is a bad thing, unless it's constantly. All of my snakes will occasionally root around, it usually looks like they're trying to find some food... Like, "Hey, Thumbelina! Come here! I think I found some pinky parts under this log!... Oh, never mind... It was just a piece of wood..."

[Enneirda.]

great food for thought everyone. Thanks again for sharing! I'm glad I stumbled across this forum.

[snakehill]

Not that I want to start anything but can I have some opinions on types of garters that have a tendency to be carnivorous. Also can you house a newbie with a yearling or do you have to worry that the older one will think the smaller one is a worm and attempt to eat it. I know this is probably a stupid question, bear with me!