6 garters for 10 dollars in paper

[d_virginiana]

Sorry, didn't mean anything against. I was just saying "come on" not really "but" come on.
I'm ticked off at a guy who isn't too much younger than me, that should have had the sense to look up on the internet how to care for them.

'Tis okay, I didn't take it badly or anything, I was just not sure exactly what you meant

[Millinex]

Without a second's hesitation. The court would decide to what degree and how culpable the people in question are.

I had no internet, with very little means in a single parent family and, starting at the age of 14, I still managed to find information and read extensively about garter snakes for close to 2 years before I got my first one.

The grandmother and the parents are the ones that are really to blame in this situation though. All are adults that really should have known better and there's absolutely no excuse for it in this day and age.

P.S. - yes educating them would be a good thing for the future but ... zero tolerance is the only thing that would make a difference. I'll happily compare this to my battles with British reptile shops and my on-going attempts to get the right info to them ... my insistance on other British forums to dispell and rubbish all of the nonsensical husbandry quips that pop up through word of mouth.
It all falls on deaf ears and until people are willing to make examples of others ... snakes will suffer and die ... simples.

He's a kid for gods sake, and you want to charge him with crimes? You're willing to have fines, time in juvie off of this kids life over a couple snakes? Ok if he was taking them and burning them sure, however, failing to keep an animal properly doesn't deserve an animal cruelty charge under any circumstance. I would never take away someones childhood over a snake, or any animal for that matter, unless he was doing something actually malicious, not just failing at husbandry, when he probably wasn't a huge snake keeping kid, and just got given presents.

[gregmonsta]

He's a kid for gods sake, and you want to charge him with crimes? You're willing to have fines, time in juvie off of this kids life over a couple snakes? Ok if he was taking them and burning them sure, however, failing to keep an animal properly doesn't deserve an animal cruelty charge under any circumstance. I would never take away someones childhood over a snake, or any animal for that matter, unless he was doing something actually malicious, not just failing at husbandry, when he probably wasn't a huge snake keeping kid, and just got given presents.

.... no idea what the system is in your country ... but at his age/for this crime he wouldn't face anything here ... his parents would be facing a fine and I already stated that they, along with grandma, are the ones truly at fault in this situation.

I beg to differ on your 'failling to keep an animal properly' statement.

Again ... the word 'husbandry' ... these animals are 'family' which you are duty bound to take care of, more or less as children ... neglect your children and see what happens - do people get away with saying "Oh, I didn't know I needed to change the nappy"/etc?

[d_virginiana]

Again ... the word 'husbandry' ... these animals are 'family' which you are duty bound to take care of, more or less as children/etc?

I totally agree on this point, but people like the ones in question are the reason for certain clauses in most states' neglect laws that allow for a warning system: ie; if an animal is seen kept in improper conditions (not overtly starved/abused mind you) the owner is given a notice, instructions on how to fix the problem, and an amount of time to fix a problem. In some states, the warning system is that an animal kept in improper conditions must be removed from the property, but if the neglect was found to be accidental and the owner cooperates, there are no charges. Only if someone refuses to fix their mistakes would they be charged; it's a safeguard for well-meaning but totally ignorant pet owners.

neglect your children and see what happens - do people get away with saying "Oh, I didn't know I needed to change the nappy"/etc?

Haha, you'd be surprised how many do get away with that, our foster-care/social services programs are pretty badly underfunded. :P
This is actually exactly what I was saying in my earlier post.. It's VERY easy to be misinformed about a garter snake, even if you think you've done your research (lots of faulty info on the internet and many large-scale venders misinform people). I mean, a baby is generally born in a hospital where doctors tell you exactly what to do and expect, baby products have their own aisle in Wal-Mart and come with precise directions on the back just in case someone doesn't know, and finally there aren't lots of rumors going around saying that it's okay to feed your baby cyanide or keep it outdoors or anything else that could be compared to the conditions in this situation.

Also, a baby will let you *know* if you're doing something wrong. You don't change the diaper, and you're going to hear about it until you do. If a baby is sick, it acts in a way we would recognize as sick. Snakes don't do this. Their behavior doesn't really change enough for someone not used to snakes to catch on that their snake isn't thriving.
idk... I just feel that that comparison is probably somewhat unfair...

[Sonya610]

It is very unlikely that the grandmother went to the pet store and PAID for 6 garter snakes. She wanted to send a "cheap" gift to the grandson so she probably saw them in the yard and either collected them or had someone else do it. Then she sent them snail mail to the kid.

Animals have little to no value to MANY people (including some that post in this thread, they obviously recognize the cash value but nothing beyond that). Gathering up some baby animals and sending them off as a "cheap" gift to the grandchild in a dirt cheap container seems perfectly reasonable to this grandmother, who cares if the snakes die as long as the grandson gets a few weeks of amusement?

Not unlike that woman that stuffed a puppy in a box, sealed hte box in a plastic bag and took it to the post office to have it sent "freight" to her child in Georgia as a birthday gift. Cheap gift, cheap postage, 'nough said.

[d_virginiana]

Animals have little to no value to MANY people (including some that post in this thread, they obviously recognize the cash value but nothing beyond that).

I've re-read this whole thread and can find only two or three people whose standpoints on this issue differ greatly from your own, and one of them is myself. If it wasn't your intention to imply that some people posting on this thread had that attitude toward animals, then I'm sorry for taking it the wrong way; perhaps you meant to say something other than thread? (because no one in this thread so far has even mentioned profit value of snakes as far as I'm aware...)

If that comment was directed at me at all, then you're grossly mistaken. I have never made any profit from any of my animals, nor have I ever even bred any of them, and most of them are rescues that I have had to rehabilitate myself. I also rehab and release orphaned and injured wild animals. Caring for animals is and always has been my passion in life.

I respect your opinion on this issue even if I disagree with it, but I find the implication that people in this thread who have different opinions than yourself condone animal exploitation/neglect to be a bit offensive...

[kibakiba]

I personally value my snakes over most things in my life. I've put my home business off just for the well being of my snakes. I know a lot of people here, and those who have posted in this thread, really love, care for and value their snakes. Sure there is a cash value to their snakes but they don't go off selling them to just anyone. I know for a fact that some of the people who posted on this thread wouldn't sell their snakes for a quick buck. That includes me.

Who exactly is it that doesn't value their snakes? I haven't seen anyone on here trying to make a quick buck off of them.

[drache]

we're not talking about people on this forum
there may be some here who have differing ideas regarding husbandry, but for the most part we do care a lot about snakes
the many people to whom snakes are of little or no value, are definitely out there, and unlikely to show up here, where they could be properly educated

[Sonya610]

I've re-read this whole thread and can find only two or three people whose standpoints on this issue differ greatly from your own, and one of them is myself.

The comment was not directed at you.

You are correct, I have not seen any comments in THIS thread regarding keeping snakes solely for profit and not as pets however the comment has been made by some in OTHER threads.

The profitability stance is one thing, but combine that with statements that amount to "it is just a snake that can't think and doesn't feel" and then defending the abuse of the animals with statements that amount to "humans, even abusive humans, are intrinsically superior therefore if in doubt they should get a free pass" makes up negative viewpoint in my mind. WHile the average joe blow on the street can hold the views it is a bit different when such views are shared on a forum devoted to the well-being of these fine animals and the statements are made by someone who chooses to buy/sell/keep the animals in large numbers.

[d_virginiana]

Alright then, good to know. Though if you weren't aiming that at people on this particular thread, you probably should have worded your initial comment a bit differently.

Also, I know I haven't been here long but I haven't encountered anybody on this forum who would openly condone abusing snakes.