6 garters for 10 dollars in paper

[Stefan-A]

You're saying someone who wants to "kick the spit" out of a 14 year old/grandma isn't? I'm going to stand by what I said 100%, just because it's the internet doesn't mean it's acceptable to say those things. Guess what, people who say that kind of garbage would NEVER say it in real life, because there would be a line of people ready to fix that attitude real damn quick.

No, I'm saying you should choose your words a bit more carefully. Disapproval can be expressed without insults.

[infernalis]

No, I'm saying you should choose your words a bit more carefully. Disapproval can be expressed without insults.

I have to concur.

One thing I have noticed is you do seem to have a rather aggressive style of writing. I have personally abandoned a couple conversations because of it.

"You have tried the stick, now use a carrot"

[ConcinusMan]

So you'd charge a 14 year old or an old lady with neglect?

That's what it is by definition. Should they be charged? Not really my call. Like you said, we don't know all the circumstances but regardless, animal abuse by neglect is what it is when someone takes in an animal, doesn't care for it properly, and it dies or suffers greatly as a result. And just for the record, I'm not actually in the habit of kicking the spit out of anyone. It's just talk to express my anger. I am actually a very non-violent person. I've never acted in a violent way in my life, save once or twice where it was self defense. BTW, "old ladies" are charged with animal neglect and abuse every day. Should we stop doing it because they are old?

why should someone be charged for not knowing any better?

Because ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law. A sane human being with all his/her faculties in place is responsible for what he/she does. Ignorance of how to take care of the animals is not an excuse.

Stop comparing this kid to you, because it's an awful comparison.

The only comparison I am making here is to drive home the point that a 14 year old is perfectly capable of handling the responsibility. His other interests (a.k.a. "football") are irrelevant.

[d_virginiana]

The only comparison I am making here is to drive home the point that a 14 year old is perfectly capable of handling the responsibility.

Along this line, I got my Houdini when I was 10, and the only reason he's still around (nearly 11 years later!!) is because I got VERY lucky. ie: Our walmart didn't stock red wigglers, and when he wouldn't eat crickets for a long time (the petstore person actually told us they would eat crickets) we got lucky that the local bait store minnows are a species that isn't poisonous to them.

I mean, snakes aren't exactly easy to monitor; they don't act a lot differently when they're unwell, they don't have regular eating habits, and most vets have no clue what to do with them (I know that you can monitor a snake's eating and behavior and that there are great herp vets out there, I'm just saying an inexperienced kid probably wouldn't be able to do that or have access to one).

I totally agree that situations like this are very sad and people should be more educated before getting a pet, but I don't think this kid or his grandma were bad people or that they should be charged with anything, simply because I'm aware of how easy it can be to think you're providing correct care for a snake and end up accidentally harming it. Also, he was getting rid of them dirt cheap, so maybe he realized he had no clue what to do and was trying to do the right thing?
idk. I just like to assume the best in people until I have a really good reason to think otherwise.

[RedSidedSPR]

I'm with Rich, the guy should read about the animals he's keeping. It's just ignorance and laziness to fix it. He probably didn't care in the first place, or he would have read up one 'em.

[RedSidedSPR]

Along this line, I got my Houdini when I was 10, and the only reason he's still around (nearly 11 years later!!) is because I got VERY lucky. ie: Our walmart didn't stock red wigglers, and when he wouldn't eat crickets for a long time (the petstore person actually told us they would eat crickets) we got lucky that the local bait store minnows are a species that isn't poisonous to them.

I mean, snakes aren't exactly easy to monitor; they don't act a lot differently when they're unwell, they don't have regular eating habits, and most vets have no clue what to do with them (I know that you can monitor a snake's eating and behavior and that there are great herp vets out there, I'm just saying an inexperienced kid probably wouldn't be able to do that or have access to one).

I totally agree that situations like this are very sad and people should be more educated before getting a pet, but I don't think this kid or his grandma were bad people or that they should be charged with anything, simply because I'm aware of how easy it can be to think you're providing correct care for a snake and end up accidentally harming it. Also, he was getting rid of them dirt cheap, so maybe he realized he had no clue what to do and was trying to do the right thing?
idk. I just like to assume the best in people until I have a really good reason to think otherwise.

I hear what you're saying, but come on..

[d_virginiana]

I hear what you're saying, but come on..

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this... I believe I said in my post that I agreed that they should have been better researched? (I'm not sure if the first post was in any way related to what I said or not...)

All I'm saying is that we have no clue what the surrounding circumstances were and that accidental neglect for snakes is quite common. Seriously; when I got my first snake, the petstore personnel told me that they ate crickets and feeder goldfish (option one, they don't eat, option two can be poisonous) and that they didn't require a UV light or special heat; just keeping them at house temperature. Sounds a heck of a lot like the setup this guy described.

For that reason, I feel that charging anyone with any sort of criminal offense in this matter would be extreme (especially the grandma who apparently lived in a different state and was probably told that the kid would take *great* care of them over the phone :P)
I'm not saying that any of the people involved handled the situation correctly, just that perhaps a lot of the judgements people have made on this are a little too harsh.

[RedSidedSPR]

Sorry, didn't mean anything against. I was just saying "come on" not really "but" come on.
I'm ticked off at a guy who isn't too much younger than me, that should have had the sense to look up on the internet how to care for them.

[Mommy2many]

I have to admit, that when I first had my garter snakes as a child, I only had the knowledge and information my parents bestowed upon me. We lived a half an hour from town and in that day (now I'm dating myself) there were no computers. I can say for a fact I was grossly misinformed. However, I did the best I could with what I had and went on from there.

Nowadays, there is so much information available to everyone, that this mistake, most times, can be avoided. We do not know the circumstances and never will. Therefore, we cannot come to any conclusion regarding the intent. I can comfortably say, that for all intensive purposes, the snakes were intended as a kind gift and was accepted with the hope of spending time with new pets. I'm sure it was very disappointing to have 4 of them perish and can only imagine what that child may have felt (as well as the grandmother for sending them) at the loss. We can only hope that they have learned from this experience and are better prepared to care for the remaining two and any more in the future. Hopefully, they will find our forum.

We all need to take a step back sometimes and get another look at the picture.

[gregmonsta]

So you'd charge a 14 year old or an old lady with neglect?

Without a second's hesitation. The court would decide to what degree and how culpable the people in question are.

I had no internet, with very little means in a single parent family and, starting at the age of 14, I still managed to find information and read extensively about garter snakes for close to 2 years before I got my first one.

The grandmother and the parents are the ones that are really to blame in this situation though. All are adults that really should have known better and there's absolutely no excuse for it in this day and age.

P.S. - yes educating them would be a good thing for the future but ... zero tolerance is the only thing that would make a difference. I'll happily compare this to my battles with British reptile shops and my on-going attempts to get the right info to them ... my insistance on other British forums to dispell and rubbish all of the nonsensical husbandry quips that pop up through word of mouth.
It all falls on deaf ears and until people are willing to make examples of others ... snakes will suffer and die ... simples.