Expensive garters

[Sonya610]

Working on ways to change that

What keywords come to mind for you?

The obvious terms such as "buy garter snake online, garter snake breeder, etc..." along with latin names and also common colors "albino, fire, flame, etc..." You can also throw in terms like "aboreal" and "best display snake" if you want, doesn't have to be accurate only limitation is using copyrighted names of other companies or breeders. One easy trick is to do quick google searches and then look at the page source code for non-paid websites that come up first. Also use the name garter in your file folders so all the links have that term in them (ranks higher). The top page coming up for "buy garter snakes online" in google doesn't even use garter in the meta tags but it has several links onthe page with the name garter in them.

Make the site user friendly for regular people by posting pictures of the snakes NEXT to the listings and prices, not on a separate gallery page! Not everyone is a breeder nor an expert! The biggest frustration I had when searching online for garters is the lack of pictures, I do not know what the various descriptions mean and without pictures it is frustrating. I see an ad for an animal without a photo and try to google the name and no photos come up. Example from Scott's page, I have no frickin idea what these terms mean! At the very least have "generic" photos that represent the various colors.

There are people seeking pets that would easily spend $100 or even $200 for a nice looking animal -- I wonder if the mindset is only breeders or collectors would buy therefore don't dumb down the site for pet buyers.

100% Het flame albinos (normal looking) $100
Flames 66% Het albino flame $175 - $225
50% Piebald hets - Inquire
Albino flame/erythristic combined ?
Flames $100 - $150
Leucistics - (From Paradox bloodline) $450
Flames 66% Het leucistic $375 - $425 pair
66% Het leucistic $250 pair

[Jeff B]

hmmmm, good tips there. I thought my site is very picture rich with lots of pictures of morph examples and discriptions, and that it google queries fairly well, but of course there is always room for improvement. Thanks for the input.

[ConcinusMan]

I wonder if the mindset is only breeders or collectors would buy therefore don't dumb down the site for pet buyers.

100% Het flame albinos (normal looking) $100
Flames 66% Het albino flame $175 - $225
50% Piebald hets - Inquire
Albino flame/erythristic combined ?
Flames $100 - $150
Leucistics - (From Paradox bloodline) $450
Flames 66% Het leucistic $375 - $425 pair
66% Het leucistic $250 pair

Let me point out that you are looking at a price list for eastern garter snake (T. sirtalis sirtalis) morphs there. This is a list for people who know what they are looking for, know what the percentages mean, and just need to see the prices for this year's offspring. It is not intended to answer any questions or to educate anyone about the morphs. However...

The very same website (or any google search) will also show you what a "flame" eastern is. Same goes for Albino flame, erythristic, leucistic, etc.

I have always found it very easy to look at this list and if I don't know what a certain morph is, I then go to the gallery on the very same website, and see pics of what a certain morph looks like. I also know that a "het albino" is a normal looking snake that carries albino genes. The percentages are the odds that a het carries a certain gene.

It just seems to me that if you don't know what these things mean, or what certain morphs look like, then you should do the research. The information you seem to be missing is right in front of you, and on that same website. It really doesn't take much effort on your part to find out what this stuff means so that you will understand the list just fine. If someone is selling dozens of "spider ball pythons" for example and I don't know what that means, I'm just going to have to research that. I don't expect the seller to do that for me.

But, I don't think it would be a bad idea for someone to try the more basic, almost classified-type approach, where you show a garter, show a price, show the species.

Of course at the volume that these breeders sell at it would be a huge task, but I could see how that would be more useful for a beginner to the hobby (and likewise unnecessary for a veteran).

Not sure what you're getting at there. Pretty much everybody here already does that. Are you suggesting that a breeder take pictures and post an ad for each snake out dozens, or hundreds born? That's not going to happen for obvious reasons. I always do show pics of the actual snake before I ship but I"m certainly not about to do each individual one and place ads for them if I have dozens of them. Its not practical.

I'm just having a hard time trying to picture what exactly it is that you're suggesting should be changed.

[Sonya610]

I'm just having a hard time trying to picture what exactly it is that you're suggesting should be changed.

This thread started off with you saying you were trying to understand the market, and you didn't want to sell to whole salers at $5-$10 an animal.

Merely pointing out there IS a market out there and a good website could bring in pet buyers. I do research regarding husbandry so I know how to care for the animal and what to expect, but beyond that I do not want to research genetics or spend hours googling photos and then more hours trying to find a specific morph etc... I am quite sure I am not the only person like this.

[ConcinusMan]

This thread started off with you saying you were trying to understand the market, and you didn't want to sell to whole salers at $5-$10 an animal.

Merely pointing out there IS a market out there and a good website could bring in pet buyers. I do research regarding husbandry so I know how to care for the animal and what to expect, but beyond that I do not want to research genetics or spend hours googling photos and then more hours trying to find a specific morph etc... I am quite sure I am not the only person like this.

I started this thread in December of 2010. A lot about my understanding of the market has changed since then. You say "I do not want to research genetics or spend hours googling photos and then more hours trying to find a specific morph etc... I am quite sure I am not the only person like this"

I totally understand where you're coming from but let me ask you this. If you suddenly decided to spend $200,000 on a car, would you not do any research before you decide what car to purchase in your price range? It really isn't the car dealers business to make sure you know what you're buying, especially when he sells out all of his stock every year, to people who already do know what they are buying.

If you take a look at the photographic library on this website, and click on specific species, you will often find photos of different morphs(different forms or variations) of that species. For example, plains garter snake:
Photographic Library - Caresheets

Oregon Red Spotted: Photographic Library - Caresheets

If there is any place to come and ask questions and to do research before you purchase, you've come to the right place. Right here.

[Millinex]

Snake pricing has always been one of those things that isn't overly easy to understand. First of all, garters while in their many many color forms, have not taken off to the mainstream yet, and I hate to break hearts, they just aren't as popular as many other commercially offered snakes. That isn't to downlplay them at all, but it does a tremendous amount towards what they are worth, even morphs.

Yes, your snake is much prettier than the other, however, to the buyer, he isn't buying for beauty. Who knows why they purchased these snakes, maybe for the sake of having something no one else has, childhood memories, some special plans that maybe garters will take off, and he'll be able to offer something no one else can. Who knows why these individuals where sold for $300, there are so many reasons that you'd have to ask the buyer directly. Give me a handful of garters, give me pretty colors, morphs, you name it, want to know which ones will sell first? You guessed it, the normals. For most it really doesn't make sense, why would someone choose a normal over a beautiful animal someone worked hard for? Simple, they want the snake they had growing up, either for them, a kid, and hell if it doesn't work out release it, they can't do that with a morph as readily because it's more "exotic" to them. Every year I go through a ton of t. e. vagarans normals, some up to $40 each, for dull brown snakes with yellow stripes, when my friend can hardly sell normal corns for $15.

I've been watching ball pythons a lot lately, and their sales, even though frankly I hate ball pythons.. I've bought and sold a few of them lately, guess who all my buyers have been so far? Girls. How does this apply? For the most part, a large majority of women I have met are terrified of snakes, moreso than men, and for a lot of guys I know, the wife/girlfriend etc is too terrified to let them have a snake. I'm not trying to sound sexist, but part of the reason you see a ball python worth 10k is the fact you can breed it and get babies worth 1k+ each, all sorts of pretty colors. Girls see the fat colorful snake, and something about them gets them over the fear. Us guys take our chance to get a snake, we please them with the pretty color, and we still get our snake.

Where do garters play into this? What snake did they probably grow up killing? Garters. Which snakes did mom scream for dad as a kid? Garters. Which snake is probably the most persecuted snake in America? Garters. Which snake did most little boys grow up catching and scaring mom with? Garters. When I look at my customers, I can for sure say that every single garter I sold last year, was too a male.

If you want to win over people, and start seeing colorful morphs really take off and gain a ton of value, you need to win over the women. They need more promotion and awareness of the species, and more large calm colorful garters need to be present at reptile expos and whatnot, get them hooked, and you could very easily see that blue garter be worth over a grand.

-Mike

[Sonya610]

I totally understand where you're coming from but let me ask you this. If you suddenly decided to spend $200,000 on a car, would you not do any research before you decide what car to purchase in your price range? It really isn't the car dealers business to make sure you know what you're buying, especially when he sells out all of his stock every year, to people who already do know what they are buying.

I spent plenty of timing look up info about garter snake temperament habits, diet, humidity requirements, lighting, etc... The important stuff!

Then the second phase was looking for specific types. I am very fond of the erythristic flames, easy to say, not so easy to find. Sure I have come across a couple of sites that say they have upcoming babies, maybe, but then because I am an unknown pet owner and not a breeder it becomes very vague (i.e. call me in june or so after they are born). Uh huh...we know that means "I don't want to mess with a pet buyer wanting ONE animal so call me in 2 months and I will tell you I have sold out because I am putting all the best animals on hold for the regular breeders/customers". LOL.

Nothing like a boring snake that lives in it's hide. Yep, shell out that cash for a shoe box (hide) that eats, drinks and defecates.

LOL yeah I have a BP. I have always found snakes to be the most beautiful of reptiles and had a garter snake as a kid. I think one reason women like the ball pythons is because they seem well...cuddly and not squirmy. They are quite lovely to hold but they are reclusive picky eaters that often don't like being held even though they tolerate it, they hide in a box 24/7. Mine hides CONSTANTLY and was on F/T but now demands live feeder rats (which I have to house here due to the driving distance).

The live food thing is really very very difficult for me, I have a couple of pet rats and I feel really awful feeding live rat babies; there is no reward for me in this situation. I only see my BP once a week for 1 minute when she comes out to kill a baby rat and I don't want to watch that. It sickens me. Heck it isn't even one minute, I drop the well fed baby rat in the cage and then shut the cage and cover it with a dark sheet so she has her "privacy" then run out onto the porch for a smoke so I don't have to hear the baby rat scream (no risk for the snake, if she doesn't eat in 15 minutes I pull the rat for next time). It is turning into a lose/lose situation and I may rehome her.

[Jeff B]

Thanks for the tips Sonya, I will look into your suggested improvements.

[ConcinusMan]

"I don't want to mess with a pet buyer wanting ONE animal so call me in 2 months and I will tell you I have sold out because I am putting all the best animals on hold for the regular breeders/customers". LOL.

Now that is what I was trying to tell you. There really isn't any need at all for the sellers to make it easy for a "newbie" to understand the list and make it easy for pet buyers since all these snakes sell out fast just the way things are now. First off, an erythristic flame is a combo morph. Even if you breed the right snakes together, the odds are against producing an erythristic flame.

Second, these breeders take prepaid reservations before the animals are even born and that is why you are out of luck. Your best (and probably only) shot is to pay as soon as he starts taking reservations, and cross your fingers that some erythristic flames are produced. I can almost guarantee that there are already more buyers who have already paid, than the number of snakes that will be produced. So, some of these people who have prepaid, still won't be getting the snake they wanted because there just isn't enough to go around.

If you're dead set on getting this particular morph, it doesn't really matter if you're a breeder or not. You're going to have a heck of a time getting one and the only way you're going to have a chance is to prepay for snakes that aren't even born yet.

[Sonya610]

If you're dead set on getting this particular morph, it doesn't really matter if you're a breeder or not. You're going to have a heck of a time getting one and the only way you're going to have a chance is to prepay for snakes that aren't even born yet.

Yeah just made an offer to do just that. May pan out...may not. I realize I am demanding, but well...I am willing to pay a sensible price ahead of time. We all have our quirks ConcinussMan...you should realize that.