Communal Breeding

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

As for secret projects, I have always been on the fence with this idea. There is the idea that we are all friends and should not have secrets, but then again if you are working to produce a new combo morph, and have spent alot of time in deciding which direction to go, whats wrong with surprising everyone with a new cool snake? I don't know, just my two cents worth...

I can understand that point of view... the surprising everyone part is fun! As long as the pairing is revealed after the fact. I can't stand it when I see a really sweet ball python on my news feed on facebook, and you ask, what combo is this? And they won't tell you. That's the stupidest BS I have ever heard of. I have even seen snakes for sale from "secret" projects... people buy them? what the heck?! Obviously, that is not where Jeff is going with it... we are talking off the deep end crazy paranoid python people here! If they are really that worried about their competition stealing you ideas something is wrong. If you uphold a good reputation, you will sell your snakes and make your claim to fame no matter what the other people are doing.

[mustang]

I can understand that point of view... the surprising everyone part is fun! As long as the pairing is revealed after the fact. I can't stand it when I see a really sweet ball python on my news feed on facebook, and you ask, what combo is this? And they won't tell you. That's the stupidest BS I have ever heard of. I have even seen snakes for sale from "secret" projects... people buy them? what the heck?! Obviously, that is not where Jeff is going with it... we are talking off the deep end crazy paranoid python people here! If they are really that worried about their competition stealing you ideas something is wrong. If you uphold a good reputation, you will sell your snakes and make your claim to fame no matter what the other people are doing.

haha if theyre worried they need to get it recorded if they were the first to come up with a new morph, like Brian (the one from snakebytes) did, but first you gotta prove it by breeding it out!...still got some python talk in me(haha still amazed with science fair) i talked about that project till i was the only talking in the whole room!!!! noone told me until i got home that the reason i though my voice sunded funny was LARYNGITIS!!!!!!(4-5 judges some in groups of two 30-45min each (except pairs they got 30-45 min.between both of em))

[Jeff B]

Jeff, I think you read a bit too literally into what I was saying. That wasn't an attempt at pointing fingers! I wasn't talking about "us" garter keepers who actually know what we are doing and are trying to preserve a trait's integrity.... and are actively breeding for select traits. I know as much as the next person that line breeding has to be done in order to start a new morph, or to refine a certain look, and that's perfectly fine. I meant how when people keep doing it, over and over for many generations... the snakes that are passed around the trade again and again, commonly, like the albino checkereds... they are so common, everyone has them, just to have them, and everyone just breeds sibling to sibling and kind of passes it on. It's not intentional, but it has become pretty evident that that's what has happened. Line breeding for a select trait and to strengthen that trait is different, because I know none of us would ever take two sibs, breed them, then breed sibs from that litter, then breed sibs from that litter, so on and so forth. Since albino checkereds are so common, thats what happens to them because they are cheap and people usually will buy a pair of babies, grow them up, breed them, and then sell those offspring in pairs to the next guy, who does the same thing! Nobody realizes how far it has gotten till the upside down thing starts showing up regularly. That's where I was getting at...

As for silvers, I love them, they are awesome for sure... I myself have been tempted but I have no interest in them until a stronger line of them is on the ground... it's such a weak gene... who knows why... I really hope that eventually, it works out. But as for secret pairings... that is silly! Lol... I don't understand why there would be a need to keep pairings a secret?! Not trying to poke the bear... I just genuinely don't get it... I don't ever intend to start being all secretive about my hobby! I know all those crazy ball python people and retic people do that kind of stuff... but they are also always at each others throats.... sometimes I just want to tell them all to go sit in the corner for a time out. I hope that garters NEVER ever go down that road... they won't though, because it takes a special kind of person to do what we do.

Shannon, sorry I thought it sounded like you were pointing finger, and now it sounds like you are pointing finger at crazy ball python people and secret breedings, lol I agree with your assessment of the general trend though, and the albino checkers have been around so long.
Could you please post a list of all the breeding that you are doing this year Maybe I can steal/copy some of your ideas, lol

And yes Shannon I may keep breedings secret untill babies are born or the project sees fruition, but but then say exactly what the genes are of the baby, not intending to produce something and then say "here's a new snake, guess whats in it?", lol, although I will never say never hehe, I am laughing my freaking *** off right now.

[Jeff B]

There is the idea that we are all friends and should not have secrets, but then again if you are working to produce a new combo morph, and have spent alot of time in deciding which direction to go, whats wrong with surprising everyone with a new cool snake? I don't know, just my two cents worth...

BINGO!!!

First off Jason, sorry about your post being highjacked, lol
But you just nailed the answer to the why the secret project dilemma occurs.

[ConcinusMan]

Why does it have to be a damn competition? You crazy garter people!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

and now it sounds like you are pointing finger at crazy ball python people and secret breedings, lol .

I am not going to deny that one

can you blame me?!?!?!

[Jeff B]

I am not going to deny that one

can you blame me?!?!?!

Heck no I can't blame you........actually they are crazy ball python people. I breed a few ball pythons too you know, huh hum....yeah crazy lol I was just teasing you, cause when I read stuff like that, that you write, I can visualize you shaking and pointing your finger at the kingsnake ball python forum, and the masses of inbreeding albino checkered keepers lol

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Heck no I can't blame you........actually they are crazy ball python people. I breed a few ball pythons too you know, huh hum....yeah crazy lol I was just teasing you, cause when I read stuff like that, that you write, I can visualize you shaking and pointing your finger at the kingsnake ball python forum, and the masses of inbreeding albino checkered keepers lol

You forgot that my other hand is on my hip. Just for some extra sass! I knew you had some BP's but I seriously doubt you are "one of those". Lol! I have had ball pythons too... But they were not exciting enough for me and I hated how the bigger they get the duller and less vibrant they are! But I found my happy medium... Carpet pythons! I looove me some carpets!

[BUSHSNAKE]

i dont know what this talk about secret projects are all about and Jeff Benfer isnt one to talk about secrets since "somebody" took one of my ideas and talked about it like it was his own...secret projects...what a joke...is "somebody" desperate

[ConcinusMan]

*ding-ding* it's on!

Oh, those crazy garter people!

I for one would like to see more openness, honesty, sharing, and mutual cooperation in the matter of breeding for new morphs instead of bickering, secret breedings, and ridiculously priced animals. That's for those crazy ball python people. (a years salary for a damn snake is insane) We're better than that.

I could have kept the blue anery concinnus morph all to myself and been the only (and possibly first) person to make them available and charged outrageous prices for them. I didn't do that. I just don't think it's right (especially since I didn't "create" the morph) or beneficial to the hobby as a whole. Might benefit my pocketbook, but not much else. I favor cooperating with other breeders to our mutual benefit, to make the morph more widely available and affordable for everyone instead of taking advantage of the demand for them and keeping them to myself.

Even if garter snakes are your business, you can still make a profit in spite of this kind of cooperation. It shouldn't be a competition. We should all be cooperating.