Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 36

Thread: W.t.f

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,873
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    Also found this: http://myfwc.com/docs/RulesRegulatio...yPermitReq.pdf

    So, I'm not really clear if this is legal or not. I keep finding references to possession, but nothing specific to collecting for intent to sell.

  2. #12
    GARTERKID
    Guest

    Thumbs down Re: W.t.f

    this isnt nothing NEW i know of at least 3 people of the top of my head that do this all from florida they dont actually catch the snakes them selves they send out what they call thier hunters.They catch everything from turtles to snakes it really is just not rite and the worst part is that abot 60% of all those large lots die before even being sold its all about the money to these people so they dont care for them or put out money to feed them yes its wrong but it happens very day mostly in florida and south carolina their just isnt a law saying its illegal but their should be.
    You will see many many of these adds on KS look at this mans add (jeff schofield) He has about 30 wc gravid females up for sale $25 each thats a shame depleting the wild like this werever he got these from its garter population is totally ruined.

  3. #13
    Subadult snake Ameivaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    281
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    Quote Originally Posted by Snakers View Post
    Yeah but we didn't pull out 100 snakes at once from an area
    But your snakes are either from this, or the snakes that produced your are.
    Which makes you and everyone else a part of the cycle.

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,873
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    Horse pucky

  5. #15
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern Finland
    Posts
    12,389
    Country: Finland

    Re: W.t.f

    Quote Originally Posted by Ameivaboy View Post
    I dont understand the big deal- on the one hand - yes it sucks to be pulling animals out of the wild- on the other- where do you think your snakes came from (or the snakes that produced yours) ? Sort of hypocritical.
    Well, let's pretend that two yearling snakes, a male and a female, are wildcaught. The one who caught them intends to breed them. Two years later, the female gives birth to 20 babies and continues giving birth to 20 babies every two years. Half of those babies start giving birth at age 3 and give birth to 20 babies each, every two years. And half of their babies give birth to 20 babies at age 3 and so it continues.

    How many snakes are there after 10 years? What's the wildcaught to captive born ratio?

  6. #16
    Subadult snake Ameivaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    281
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    They are still descendants of wild caught snakes. You can try to rationalize it all you want.
    None of the captive bred animals would be available to anyone with out collectors doing what they do. I not saying it's right, but I understand it.

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,873
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    Taking a few and breeding them is one thing. Collecting as many as you can catch, year after year, is completely different and totally unnecessary.

    Yes, somebody, somewhere had to catch the original wild stock that are now producing generations of CB snakes, and occasionally, new wild stock is needed to keep bloodlines strong. That is a fact we cannot avoid. What we can avoid is outright exploitation and overcollecting. In the case of Florida, if we don't like it, we'd have to petition the State to change the rules which would require passing a law. That would probably require a fight to achieve.

  8. #18
    Subadult snake Ameivaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    281
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    Everyone wants to avoid over collecting- even the collectors. If they wipe out where they collect, they have nothing to collect in the future. Hence these animals were collected after mating season. Any responsible collector does the same thing, and tries not to over collect in one area. This isnt good for them in the long run and they know this.

  9. #19
    Forum Moderator Stefan-A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Southern Finland
    Posts
    12,389
    Country: Finland

    Re: W.t.f

    Quote Originally Posted by Ameivaboy View Post
    They are still descendants of wild caught snakes. You can try to rationalize it all you want.
    No, it's simple math. It does not matter if they are descended from wc snakes, what matters is the impact of each snake, whether it's wildcaught or captive bred.

    Even if the point got across, I suggest doing the math just for fun. It's not a small number.

    None of the captive bred animals would be available to anyone with out collectors doing what they do.
    There's still an enormous difference in scale. If it was violence, it would be illustrated by the difference between slapping someone on the wrist and stabbing them in the face with a screwdriver.

    I not saying it's right, but I understand it.
    So do I. I understand it, but it's still unacceptable.

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,873
    Country: United States

    Re: W.t.f

    Agreed. By now it is pretty obvious to everyone that I have collected wild snakes but I do not do so with unscrupulous intent to make money. I take into consideration the impact on the population in every case, and the potential benefit to the hobby itself.

    I made darn sure since anery concinnus are rather rare, that the population is dang near at a breaking point (and it is) and that no females collected were gravid. For one reason or another, many of the females failed to become gravid this year. For every one collected, dozens more, some gravid, were left alone. I took special care to make sure they weren't gravid due to the few that managed to become gravid this year. Now, I'm sure if I didn't care about the population and were out to make money, I could have caught and sold many dozens of them, including the gravid ones, and sold their babies I didn't do that. It's just wrong and would have had a terrible impact on an already low reproduction year for the anery's. Luckily, judging from all the yearling sized anery's found, last year was good for them, and those were for the most part left to become next year's adults for breeding in the wild.

    Now there were some wild gravid normals collected, not necessarily by me, and many of their offspring will be sold. Those snakes are not rare, but plentiful, and only a few were taken. Again, many dozens more were left in the wild even though if I wanted to get greedy, I'm sure I could have sold them. This thing happening in Florida is downright unscrupulous exploitation and it's sickening. They don't seem to care about the impact at all. Only about the money.

    I don't intend to collect any more wild concinnus for many years to come. A few snakes already in the hands of breeders; enough to provide a strong breeding group, is all that is needed for now, and that's the way it should be. It shouldn't go on year after year, selling as many as you can catch. That's terrible. I will admit however, that it might be necessary to borrow a few males for breeding in the spring, but once they have done their job, they would be returned to their wild homes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •