W.t.f

[Snakers]

I dont understand the big deal- on the one hand - yes it sucks to be pulling animals out of the wild- on the other- where do you think your snakes came from (or the snakes that produced yours) ? Sort of hypocritical.

Yeah but we didn't pull out 100 snakes at once from an area

[Ameivaboy]

Yeah but we didn't pull out 100 snakes at once from an area

But your snakes are either from this, or the snakes that produced your are.
Which makes you and everyone else a part of the cycle.

[Stefan-A]

I dont understand the big deal- on the one hand - yes it sucks to be pulling animals out of the wild- on the other- where do you think your snakes came from (or the snakes that produced yours) ? Sort of hypocritical.

Well, let's pretend that two yearling snakes, a male and a female, are wildcaught. The one who caught them intends to breed them. Two years later, the female gives birth to 20 babies and continues giving birth to 20 babies every two years. Half of those babies start giving birth at age 3 and give birth to 20 babies each, every two years. And half of their babies give birth to 20 babies at age 3 and so it continues.

How many snakes are there after 10 years? What's the wildcaught to captive born ratio?

[ConcinusMan]

Also found this: http://myfwc.com/docs/RulesRegulatio...yPermitReq.pdf

So, I'm not really clear if this is legal or not. I keep finding references to possession, but nothing specific to collecting for intent to sell.

[ConcinusMan]

Horse pucky

[Ameivaboy]

They are still descendants of wild caught snakes. You can try to rationalize it all you want.
None of the captive bred animals would be available to anyone with out collectors doing what they do. I not saying it's right, but I understand it.

[Stefan-A]

They are still descendants of wild caught snakes. You can try to rationalize it all you want.

No, it's simple math. It does not matter if they are descended from wc snakes, what matters is the impact of each snake, whether it's wildcaught or captive bred.

Even if the point got across, I suggest doing the math just for fun. It's not a small number.

None of the captive bred animals would be available to anyone with out collectors doing what they do.

There's still an enormous difference in scale. If it was violence, it would be illustrated by the difference between slapping someone on the wrist and stabbing them in the face with a screwdriver.

I not saying it's right, but I understand it.

So do I. I understand it, but it's still unacceptable.

[MasSalvaje]

They are still descendants of wild caught snakes. You can try to rationalize it all you want.
None of the captive bred animals would be available to anyone with out collectors doing what they do. I not saying it's right, but I understand it.

You are very wrong my friend. By your rational people that keep wild caught snakes and people that use wild caught snakes as a cash crop are one in the same.

I could be wrong but I don't see a response in this thread that says anything against wild caught animals. They are all against the reckless way some people collect to make a quick buck.

There is no rationalizing needed you are comparing rotten apples to oranges. Do I or have I kept wild caught snakes? Yes. Do I still care about wild populations and do what I can to help out by planning very carefully what I keep and what I don't? Yes. Do I collect everything I come in contact with regardless of the repercussions on the wild populations and then sell them as fast as I can to make a buck without properly caring for the animals to maximize profit? No.

I also highly disagree with your statement that none of the CBB animals that we have would be here without collectors like this. Most CBB animals come from people who actually care about the animals and where they came from enough to start captive breeding from their very carefully cared for wild caught stock. They do not come from people who collect massive amounts of animals from the wild. Those people don't care enough about the animals or the ecosystems from which they were taken to put in the time and money needed to produce CBB animals. That is clearly evident by the cost of the animals they are selling.

-Thomas

[Ameivaboy]

You are very wrong my friend. By your rational people that keep wild caught snakes and people that use wild caught snakes as a cash crop are one in the same.

I could be wrong but I don't see a response in this thread that says anything against wild caught animals. They are all against the reckless way some people collect to make a quick buck.

There is no rationalizing needed you are comparing rotten apples to oranges. Do I or have I kept wild caught snakes? Yes. Do I still care about wild populations and do what I can to help out by planning very carefully what I keep and what I don't? Yes. Do I collect everything I come in contact with regardless of the repercussions on the wild populations and then sell them as fast as I can to make a buck without properly caring for the animals to maximize profit? No.

I also highly disagree with your statement that none of the CBB animals that we have would be here without collectors like this. Most CBB animals come from people who actually care about the animals and where they came from enough to start captive breeding from their very carefully cared for wild caught stock. They do not come from people who collect massive amounts of animals from the wild. Those people don't care enough about the animals or the ecosystems from which they were taken to put in the time and money needed to produce CBB animals. That is clearly evident by the cost of the animals they are selling.

-Thomas

Where do people buy their original stock? from wholesalers and pet stores which get their stock where?.......

I never said anything about collectors breeding animals.

[MasSalvaje]

Where do people buy their original stock? from wholesalers and pet stores which get their stock where?.......

I never said anything about collectors breeding animals.

You do have a point there about pet stores and wholesalers. However you implied that anyone that has a snake needs to in some way or another justify themselves because they are just as guilty as the collectors. I take offense to that. Out of the dozens of reptiles I have purchased not one of them was from a wholesaler and only 2 have been from a pet store (my very first snake, and a Xenochrophis from Petco that I felt sorry for). All of my reptiles apart from those 2 have been from reputable breeders, so please inform me as to where I am in need of any rationalization or how I have been a hypocrite in any way.

-Thomas