awwww crap...

[BUSHSNAKE]

hey Richard if you are aware of Phil Blais's article on flame garters back in '98 in Vivarium magazine you would of read that infertility rates of captive garters are often lower than that of wild garters for reasons unknown. Nobody could tell you for sure if it has to due with diet, temps or length of brumation, we all experience different things and if you did more captive breeding of garters then so would you.

[ConcinusMan]

Somebody might have written it, but I'm not seeing it. I have done captive breeding but normal concinnus only, and not more than two generations removed. Still no slugs and very few neonates don't make it, very few still borns. Litters ranged from 25-50 healthy neonates. Everyone keeps telling me that concinnus litters are small. I certainly have never seen less than 25.

Are you sure the statement didn't mean that WC captives have higher fertility rates? It sure doesn't seem to apply to the litters born in the effort to produce snows, albino's, etc. and everyone knows inbreeding goes on to get there. Just sayin'

I certainly didn't mean to push a button and get everyone all defensive. You have to admit, there's been a lot of "slugging out" lately. Seems to have become the norm.

[BUSHSNAKE]

i produced snows and albinos and no they were not inbred, i dont take shortcuts, i took the time and did it right...i cant speak for anyone else but integrity comes first in my book... and i dont really know why females slug out nor does anyone else but as you can see it is common

[MasSalvaje]

i produced snows and albinos and no they were not inbred, i dont take shortcuts, i took the time and did it right...i cant speak for anyone else but integrity comes first in my book... and i dont really know why females slug out nor does anyone else but as you can see it is common

I am glad you take the time and resources to produce good lines, but I want to pose one question (okay maybe a few). Why is inbreeding looked down on so much? Doesn't it only make for weak progeny if there is a problem to begin with? I know that genetic bottlenecking can cause problems in wild populations because if something comes along that wipes one of them out it will wipe all of them out, but couldn't that be prevented in captivity?

Please don't take this that I condone inbreeding or even that I am against those that do inbreed their lines, I am just curious about the genetics behind it.

-Thomas

[snakeman]

You can breed siblings but if you go any farther than that i would say it is too much.Plus snakes slug out for many reasons.Not just inbreeding.Female is too thin,male has no sperm, not brumated long enough, too long brumation,etc.