Hypoanerythristic and high black concinnus

[Jeff B]

Well I certainly hope that intentional CB hybridization isn't occuring with the concinnus, just for the sake of improving a color line and to make money, ect., In my humble oppinion things get very "muddy" genetics wise when that happens, especially generations down the road, when people buying a snake don't even realize it. It's kind of sad when you look at the monstrosities that have been created in other snake species, without naming any names. Some colubrids, it's getting to the point or soon will that you don't even know what species to call it or even genus, lol, may as well just label it "snake" sp. % unknown. But you can't talk any reason, it just becomes a big contriversial arguement, so to each there own, know what I mean?

[guidofatherof5]

Some colubrids I wonder what you mean Sorry, I'm being a little corny.

[ConcinusMan]

I hear you there but the hybrids you're speaking of aren't even the same species and are usually not even geographically close enough to have been in each others range any time in the recent past few millenia.

T.s. fitchii can be found not very far east of my location (columbia river gorge) but always have 3 stripes and very dark red spots and yellow throats/chins. Very similar to concinnus in appearance but I think it's already been proven by genetic tests that the two ssp did not contribute genetic material to each other at any time in the past. Currently they are outside of each others range in the gorge. Genes are definitely not the reason they look similar but it is not unlikely that the two could be physically compatible and would probably produce hybrids under certain circumstances (like captivity) Same goes for infernalis. No genetic sharing in the past, no chance of hybrids in nature. Even in humans there is evidence to suggest that part of our genetic makeup was inherited from past extinct hominids, especially H. erectus but that's for another debate. My point is, no evidence suggests that any similar garter ssp in the west are related. To the contrary, some western ssp are more related genetically to garters that look totally different and are found far from the west.

My statement about those CB concinnus I saw was probably a bit short-sighted and jumping to conclusions. It's just that I've never seen concinnus look like that in any wild photograph. They had yellow throats, deep red, clean head entirely red. Basically I want to know if the CB concinnus have any wild ancestors that share their unusual traits. But I'm just rambling on now.

People playing God with the crossings are very pleased with some of their designer, one of a kind snakes. I have one thing to say about that gorgeous hybrid. That ONE special one out of the entire litter. "Bet you can't friggen do it again!"

I've said it before, a wolf is the same species as a the tiniest purebred domestic dog. As different as they are, man worked with genetic traits that were always there and came up with these domestic dogs. That makes man a co-creator. When you cross with another species, it never ends well in the long run. You can cross a wolf or domestic dog with a coyote (not the same species) or cross garter species/ssp. but in my opinion that would be as stupid as robbing a jewelry store at knife point. IF it works you might get one or two gems to show off for a short time but the consequences....

Let the hybrid fans have their day in the sun. We'll keep breeding (even if it's selectively) same species and ssp for their naturally inherited traits and have our millenium in the sun. We know why hybrids in the wild are extremely rare. They aren't meant to be, are against the rules of nature and therefore won't last. (I realize that nature has been known to change the rules at times but this is not one of those times)

Anyway, back to the weird concinnus. I found that shannons "rainbow man" shares traits with many wild concinnus but to find one or population of snakes like that.. well... prove they exist in the wild. I don't think they do. It looks more like it has the best traits of a fitchii combined with the best traits of a concinnus. Also, I think he will fade over time and not hurt your eyes so much. Her high black line is well, admirable but snakes like that can be found randomly within a population of typicals.

Maybe I'm making too much out of details when it comes to these very different concinnus I have. She has the rainbow man but I am concinnusman. It's my self-assigned duty to bring these details to light and discuss anything having to do with concinnus.

Pics of shannons rainbow concinnus: http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1731489,1731489

[Odie]

Her strip is dayglow lime and her spots are about as red as the nose on that "deep red"

[ConcinusMan]

Nothing unusual. Nothing so different to make you say WTF? All over their range you'll find both "dayglow lime", yellow, or almost white stripes. I can get all 3 from one pair and even a few 3 stripers, all in the same litter.

One more detail I thought I would share another hint: If one of the snakes from my snakes' location were to fall asleep on a raft and drift UPSTREAM for an hour or two he might wake up right where you found yours. I'm thinking SE hillsboro is where you found yours.

The deep red I'm referring to looks like this:




By contrast the notably hypoery's upstream from you look like this and dominate the population:


Neither the deep red or the second pic are what I would call typical. Yours is somewhere in between and not hard to find in that region of Oregon. I just thought it was very weird to find a spot where nearly all were hypoerys like this second pic. It's like, "OK, who the heck went and washed the colors in bleach?"

[ConcinusMan]

I finally figured out who that new member was that gave me hints to location of these weird concinnus. I mean, I took a leap of faith and traveled 25 miles to find these concinnus. I think his original post that I was referring to got deleted but he did indicate that the weird concinnus were somewhere near beaverton. Take a look at the last pic in one of his posts. Look familiar? it does to me. Got two in my room right now that look like that! Where's the red? forget red, where's the color? any color? Maybe everyone just assumed photgraphic error and didn't comment about the color but no, that's really what they look like. there is a bit of a greenish tint all over but nothing I would call red or orange. Not even yellow.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6499



Coincidentally I am also highly seeking for ordinoides with the red stripe which he also photographed and posted in that thread. GIMMIE! MINE!

[gregmonsta]

A bit like the one in this autopsy - http://www.schlangenauge.ch/concinus.pdf

[Jeff B]

That black and white anery concinnus look is really growing on me, I like it. Of course everybody likes the bright crisp deep red ones.

[ConcinusMan]

Ooops. Why didn't somebody say something. I totally screwed up. The title of the thread should read "hypoerythristic" Oops. Now I feel stupid. Like a kid in school who's been wearing a "kick me, I'm an idiot" sign all day. Can a mod fix that without contributors losing the thread in their subscriptions?

[mustang]

Ooops. Why didn't somebody say something. I totally screwed up. The title of the thread should read "hypoerythristic" Oops. Now I feel stupid. Like a kid in school who's been wearing a "kick me, I'm an idiot" sign all day.

i believe the "dunce cap" should be reintroduced in middle schools everywhere...im in high school