anyone working with Thamnophis gigas

[duh duh duh]

In my jurisdiction we are limited with what types of Thamnophis we can import and keep. Sirtalis are out (unfortunately), amongst others.

In any event, looking at some of the other species, I am intrigued by the Giants. Is anyone currently working with these guys? I think it would be fascinating to set up a large enclosure with a full 10-30 gallon fish aquarium inside and watch these big guys hunt.

Anyone working with them? Any breeding projects? Any cool morphs or results from breeding programs?

[Stefan-A]

It's unlikely.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I have never heard of anyone keeping gigas. Mainly because they are illegal to possess in the united states. So collecting them for any reason, even to send to another country would be illegal. All they really are is oversized, plain brown garter snakes. No intruiging colors or anything. If you'd like a big thamnophis, get yourself a female marcianus and feed it well, or a female western ribbon snake, if you'd like to see a snake that will grow even longer! They get ridiculously huge if fed right!

[ssssnakeluvr]

no one is working with them.....I would love to....but, they are endangered in California...have a small range and are protected.

[ConcinusMan]

To be honest, if there is such a thing as an ugly garter snake, gigas would qualify. I've actually found populations of them and had a chance to observe them. Funny thing is, I never saw one that was very large. I've seen populations of concinnus that had much larger specimens on average. gigas have no appeal to me and I certainly wouldn't even consider keeping one, even if they weren't a threatened species. All that said, they are protected under U.S. law under the Endangered Species Act. They also are protected by California State laws. NO COLLECTING/POSSESSING allowed.

Threatened = likely to become an endangered species in the near future due to ongoing threats and declining numbers.

[drache]

did some research for you (leafing through Rossman et al)
your next runner up to gigas in size would be sirtalis (are all sirtalis "out, or just T.s.sirtalis?), and after that it would be cyrtopsis - very attractive species

[ConcinusMan]

I agree. sirtalis can get quite large (4.5 feet) but that size is probably only reached before the end of their lives if they feed on mammals. Field research seems to support this, so a subspecies that naturally feeds on mammals would have great size potential. My girl (T. sirtalis concinnus) was just over 3.5 feet (she was about 8 inches when I got her) when she died at age 21, but she flat refused any kind of mammal as food and didn't grow much in her last 3 or 4 years.

Nothing to do with size but I laughed when I read this: The longest lived garter snake in captivity was an Eastern or Common Garter Snake reported to have lived 14 years. (Slavens, 1998) Typical longevity in captivity appears to be about 6 - 10 years. Lifespan in the wild is undoubtedly little longer than that.

[Stefan-A]

Nothing to do with size but I laughed when I read this: The longest lived garter snake in captivity was an Eastern or Common Garter Snake reported to have lived 14 years. (Slavens, 1998) Typical longevity in captivity appears to be about 6 - 10 years. Lifespan in the wild is undoubtedly little longer than that.

The typical life span of a wild garter could probably be counted in months.

I've heard about garters living up to and possibly over 20 years in captivity, but of course these are all unconfirmed.

[confused]

The typical life span of a wild garter could probably be counted in months.

From the amount of dead snakes i see around here, it's probably true.
(I used to have 1000's of frogs before the garters moved in, wonder where they all went)

[drache]

The typical life span of a wild garter could probably be counted in months.

I've heard about garters living up to and possibly over 20 years in captivity, but of course these are all unconfirmed.

if it's anything like cats . . .
the statistic for them is such that the average life span of an indoor cat is 17 years, that of an indoor/outdoor cat 7 years, and that of an outdoor cat 3 years
there's probably a similar pattern with snakes, although other than Steve, none of us are likely to have indoor/outdoor ones