Thamnophis Surprise This Morning

[pitbulllady]

I've kept and bred Nerodia for quite some time, but never have bred Thamnophis of any species before, although I've had the odd Garter now and then. Back on Sept. 5, I purchased a really nice-looking large(for this species)female Blue-Striped Ribbon Snake(T. sauritus nitae)at a reptile show in Raleigh, NC. She'd recently dropped a clutch of 13 babies, which the vendor was also selling at the show. I often do educational presentations with snakes for school groups, etc., and this girl was large enough and attractive and calm enough to make a good addition, so I took her home. She'd been devouring Tilapia and Salmon pieces with gusto, until about two weeks ago, when she went into a shed, and has not eaten since. I figured that she was just getting ready to shut down for winter, given that she had good weight on her. A couple of days ago, she started acting strangely, very agitated, trying to get out of her enclosure, etc., and I got a bit worried that she was sick.

Well, long story short-woke up this morning to 16 new mouths to feed! At least it explained why she was so agitated and not feeding, but man, these things are TINY! I could floss my teeth with one of these little strings! They are active and alert, and most are still undergoing their first shed, but what on earth do I feed these little buggers? At least baby Water Snakes can eat good-sized fish chunks at birth. The mother eats cut fish pieces, so are baby Ribbons likely to take really small slivers of fish, too? I can't get guppies. We have no pet shops within a 45-minute radius(yes, I'm out in the "sticks"), and they do not sell feeder fish other than goldfish and rosy reds, both "no-no's". I live in an area with no streams or ponds, only one river, and the only access is a very dangerous hang-out for drug dealers and gangs, so catching my own tiny fish like Mosquito Fish isn't an option. I need some recommendations as to what to feed these tiny things.

Also, what about the color-the mother has really bright electric blue striping, but the babies' stripes are all yellow or gold; I can't even see a greenish tinge to indicate blue coming in. Does the blue on these show up later, after several sheds, or is it a recessive genetic trait that must be present in both parents? I have no idea what she got bred to, and since she'd just dropped a clutch right before I got her, had no reason to suspect she was gravid again. I do not know if the seller had left her in with a male or not before selling her. I'd never heard of these double-clutching before. Do they retain sperm from a previous breeding, even though they have dropped one clutch already? All of the adults that the seller had were females, including this one and a Red-Striped Ribbon from TX. I'm in SC, and these aren't native to this state but to Florida, so simply releasing the babies is a bad idea. I'd really appreciate some advice on what to do with these minute little things.

[Charis]

I would try the small pieces of fish. I'm not sure whether ribbons eat this, but you might try digging for earth worms, if it's not too cold there already. The last time I went worm hunting I found some really tiny ones that my pickeringi ate well. They were actually a little small for my 10" babies. Hope that helps some.

[pitbulllady]

I would try the small pieces of fish. I'm not sure whether ribbons eat this, but you might try digging for earth worms, if it's not too cold there already. The last time I went worm hunting I found some really tiny ones that my pickeringi ate well. They were actually a little small for my 10" babies. Hope that helps some.

I've never seen an earthworm that didn't dwarf these babies. The ones they sell as bait in every country store could easily squash one of these Ribbons just by lying on top of it. Earthworms of any size are a bit of a rarity around here, except for those sold as bait. The ground is hard-packed sand and gravel, does not hold water well at all, and any worms that dare show themselves above ground quickly fall victim to fire ants, which pick off anything that cannot get out of their way quickly enough. Once in awhile I might find one underneath a board or something, but even the smallest would be twice the size, girth or length, of these little things. I'm hoping that I can get them to eat fish slivers, since I know that worms are out because of size. I've had Garters give birth while I owned them, but these make Garter babies look like neonate Boa Constrictors!

[Charis]

We need pictures! I'll be praying they take fish slivers for you! And will try to think of what else you might try. Good luck!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Wow, I know just how you feel! A female redstripe did the same thing for me this year! I bought her, she started getting fatter and fatter and a few months later... 16 babies!! They are actually a breeze to work with. Try offering them little fish pieces tomorrow or the next day. If they do not take them, and you can't get guppies, start them on rosies. They are better than goldfish and better than nothing, and then you can manage to quite quickly switch them off the rosies (it only took me 1 feeding of rosies before mine ate ANYTHING that smelled like fish). Wait until you see how FAST they grow. it's like lightening!

[adamanteus]

I don't keep any Ribbons myself, but I have read in the past that they are not so keen on earthworms as Garters are. Hopefully you'll have success with the fish slivers. Good luck.

[pitbulllady]

Wow, I know just how you feel! A female redstripe did the same thing for me this year! I bought her, she started getting fatter and fatter and a few months later... 16 babies!! They are actually a breeze to work with. Try offering them little fish pieces tomorrow or the next day. If they do not take them, and you can't get guppies, start them on rosies. They are better than goldfish and better than nothing, and then you can manage to quite quickly switch them off the rosies (it only took me 1 feeding of rosies before mine ate ANYTHING that smelled like fish). Wait until you see how FAST they grow. it's like lightening!

I hope you're right about these as well. They are active, alert little strings, and I'd hate to lose any of them. If they color up like their mother, they'll be screamers! She's started eating again, just hours after giving birth; I just hope they follow suit.

[GartersRock]

I recently had a litter of 12 bluestripe ribbons. They are MICRO aren't they??!! Basically you can't buy guppies small enough. I got mine started on tilapia pieces immediately. A little difficult. But they are just THAT tiny!! I don't think they would eat worms anyways. Good luck!

I think all bluestripe ribbon babies are born black and brown, gold or yellow then color up.

[pitbulllady]

Well, I got 9 out of the 16 to eat thin strips of Tilipia this evening, so that's more than half that have eaten. I'll try again tomorrow when I get home from work, to see if the remaining 7 hold-outs eat anything. I tried them with the Trout first, but none showed any interest at all, but as soon as I switched to a piece of Tilapia, I got the first grab! It was really a relief to see those tiny pink mouths open up and latch onto a piece of fish, believe me! These little guys are a lot feistier than my Water Snake babies, and I've had several get ticked off and strike at my fingers, which is pretty funny considering that you can't even feel them bite at all. They remind me more of baby Racers or Coachwhips with both the build and the attitude. I took a few pics, but I've still got to resize and crop them and upload them to Photobucket.

[Charis]

Great news! That's wonderful to hear. Can't wait for some pics!